Would you ignore the missed base?

[Jocko]

scott,

FWIW, I believe you made the correct call in your sitch.

JM

I agree. His call was better than mine. I blatantly disregarded the miss without having to look for evidence.

[JaxRolo]

Pops,

Are you 100% certain he missed the bag?

[Dragon29]

My question on Trout's sitch is why the team that's up 456-0 (lopsided game!) was appealing the miss in the first place?!?? Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I'm honestly not certain what I'd do and hope I'm never faced w/it, but based on Trout's description, I have no problem w/him not seeing the miss.

[johnnyg08]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

[Dragon29]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

[umpire_scott]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

I generally agree with this, but not when a shutout is possible. If it was 456-1 then I would find it poor sportsmanship. : D

[Jocko]

I had a very lopsided HSV game this season. VT was crushing HT like 18-0 in the 3rd. HT could do nothing right. VT HC finally told all his batters unless it goes out its a single, and you are to walk off 1b and get intentionally picked. Mandatory 7 inning game lasted 3 hours. VT all batted opposite starting in the 4th, and STILL got good base hits. In the 5th, VT bunted the lineup. Everyone.

[Jocko]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

I generally agree with this, but not when a shutout is possible. If it was 456-1 then I would find it poor sportsmanship. : D

it wasn't a no hitter or perfect game or a shutout. It was simply a run rule.

[Dragon29]

I had a very lopsided HSV game this season. VT was crushing HT like 18-0 in the 3rd. HT could do nothing right. VT HC finally told all his batters unless it goes out its a single, and you are to walk off 1b and get intentionally picked. Mandatory 7 inning game lasted 3 hours. VT all batted opposite starting in the 4th, and STILL got good base hits. In the 5th, VT bunted the lineup. Everyone.

Exactly!

[johnnyg08]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

You brought up many examples that are completely different from a missed base.

If a player misses a base by enough so everybody sees it, if I were coaching, I'd appeal the base. That is not poor sportsmanship. Stealing third when you're up by 10 runs, suicide squeeze when you're up big...those are examples of poor sportsmanship. Appealing a missed base, is not poor sportsmanship.

[Jocko]

Agree whit John. It's just a HC doing his job. I am the one who was persuaded by the situation. I admitted from the start I was wrong, but no regrets.

[Dragon29]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

You brought up many examples that are completely different from a missed base.

If a player misses a base by enough so everybody sees it, if I were coaching, I'd appeal the base. That is not poor sportsmanship. Stealing third when you're up by 10 runs, suicide squeeze when you're up big...those are examples of poor sportsmanship. Appealing a missed base, is not poor sportsmanship.

You're right - my examples weren't of missed base appeals (I thought we had covered that) I was bringing up other behaviours that I would find as reprehensible as what this team did by appealing a missed base when up by such a large margin.

IMHO, appealing a missed base when leading by an insurmountable number of runs is unsportsmanlike. And, as I said earlier - you are free to disagree with me, just as I am free to disagree with you . . . which I do.

[Dragon29]

Agree whit John. It's just a HC doing his job. I am the one who was persuaded by the situation. I admitted from the start I was wrong, but no regrets.

A manager can do his job and be a poor sport simultaneously. I've seen it happen!

[Pops]

Pops,

Are you 100% certain he missed the bag?

There are some calls that are borderline, but missing a base has to be a 100% certainty with me. I saw him miss when I looked at him rounding the base. I was even more sure when the DC yelled from the dugout...he saw it too. However, I must admit that the third base coach made an amazing argument which made me replay the event in my head several times after I left the field. Believe me, it would have been easier to just say he touched it and avoid controversy, but I felt the need to make the right call. Otherwise, the DC would have exploded. So it depends which coach you are in that situation, but someone is going to be mad. Making the call the way I saw it helped me sleep that night.

[umpire_scott]

True a run-rule makes the shutout less significant. I'm just saying if it was some sort of a milestone that might go into my thinking. As an example I coached girl's basketball at the middle school I teach at. I preached defense constantly. We set a goal and our team motto became "no one scores 20" against us. I know that sounds ridiculous but it is middle school girl's basketball. We went 13-1, and won the district championship that year. Our one loss was in the championship game of an invitational tournament against a school twice our size (enrollment wise) that we would never had been schedule against. They scored 41 points against us. We held all other teams to under 20 except one team in our district that scored 22. In that game we were up 31-10 after three quarters so I put in by bench. The other team had one really good player and she went off and scored 12 points by herself in the 4th quarter. I thought of putting my starters back in to preserve that goal, which was important to the players, but decided not to.

[umpire_scott]

Pops,

Are you 100% certain he missed the bag?

There are some calls that are borderline, but missing a base has to be a 100% certainty with me. I saw him miss when I looked at him rounding the base. I was even more sure when the DC yelled from the dugout...he saw it too. However, I must admit that the third base coach made an amazing argument which made me replay the event in my head several times after I left the field. Believe me, it would have been easier to just say he touched it and avoid controversy, but I felt the need to make the right call. Otherwise, the DC would have exploded. So it depends which coach you are in that situation, but someone is going to be mad. Making the call the way I saw it helped me sleep that night.

On missed base calls I quickly judge in my mind whether I'm 100% certain, before I can be influenced. So if I make the call it's because I'm waiting to see if they caught it too. If I wonder for even a split second, if there is a 1% chance I was not at the perfect angle and the inside of his foot brushed it, I decide I did not see it.

[SoCal Lurker]

Talk about poor sportsmanship!

I don't think playing the game correctly is poor sportsmanship.

OK - I know the score wasn't really 456-0, but it was obviously a done deal as far as who was going to win. When watching a game like that, do you not think it's poor sportsmanship for the team that's leading to say, . . steal bases on every passed ball? Take 2 bases on a single rather than running station-to-station? bunt a runner to 3B from 2B w/no outs? . . . .

I'm not saying any of this stuff is against the rules, nor would I legislate against it while working the game, but (& you can disagree with me all you like) I think it is poor sportsmanship to be rubbing it in the other team's face like that.

Even professionals relax a little in a seriously lop-sided game like that. (or they might take one in the earhole on their next AB)

You brought up many examples that are completely different from a missed base.

If a player misses a base by enough so everybody sees it, if I were coaching, I'd appeal the base. That is not poor sportsmanship. Stealing third when you're up by 10 runs, suicide squeeze when you're up big...those are examples of poor sportsmanship. Appealing a missed base, is not poor sportsmanship.

I think whether it is or isn't is both a matter of opinion and a matter of context. Keep in mind this was a game that didn't matter and it sounds like a kid who's been in the same community league a number of years and was who he was. As a coach, not in a million years would I appeal that play. Unsporting? Well, we can argue abuot linguistics, but IMHO any coach who did appeal is an @#$#@.

(Random aside: Perhaps my favorite moment from one of my daughter's soccer season [not a year I coached her] came in the final game of the season, playing against a team that hadn't scored all season. In the second half, my daughter and the other defenders conspired to give up a goal without looking like they were doing it. They succeeded. Much cheering on the other sideline. Many smiles on ours from the few of us who knew what was going on.)

[Pete Peterson Sr]

FWIW I agree with you Trout. I would let it go. I also let one go in this instance:

Runner on first. BR hits a gapper. R1 is sent home by third base coach. Play is going to be close. Ball goes high and bounces around the backstop. R1 slides in and completely covers home plate with dirt (this was a horrible field), to where you can't even see it. BR seeing the ball get away from the catcher comes home. I see where he steps, but so does F1 who had come in to cover home. The throw from the catcher is way late. F1 uses his foot to clear a part of the plate, sees that BR missed it and wants to appeal. I call him safe. Thankfully F1 never said anything to his coach to open up that can of worms, but I was not going to call an out on that.

a little bit different sitch. I had a run rule game going with VT gasping it's last breath when one moment in a young boy's life shined brighter than all the heavenly bodies. For that moment in time, he was the best player on the field. In town. The state. The U.S. The world. For that trip around the bases, all the cosmic tumblers fell into place, unlocking the purest form of elation that exists in every young baseball player's psyche. In that instant, he was Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Jimie Foxx, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Jose Canseco, Sammy Sosa, Ken Griffey Jr, Mark McGuire, David Ortiz, AND Manny Ramirez. That moment of his life transcends time and exists forever in the spirit of this wonderful game. Justin will have the memory of the joy, and I will have the story. Pretty good story so far, and I've only begun.

Goodness....are you applying for Sainthood ???? Stop patting yourself on the back, before you dislocate your shoulder.

[Texarkana]

I have been in that position before. You call what you see. I tell the managers in preseason that, "missing the bases is probably the biggest thing 10-12 years olds do" that DC's never appeal.

Why tell them anything? I do not usually converse with coaches. I watch kids at HS and below miss bases on a regular bases. If more coached dedicated a person to watch base touches, there would be a lot more outs. The scenario that started the thread. He missed the base, he got caught and he is out.

[RichMSN]

Pops,

Are you 100% certain he missed the bag?

There are some calls that are borderline, but missing a base has to be a 100% certainty with me. I saw him miss when I looked at him rounding the base. I was even more sure when the DC yelled from the dugout...he saw it too. However, I must admit that the third base coach made an amazing argument which made me replay the event in my head several times after I left the field. Believe me, it would have been easier to just say he touched it and avoid controversy, but I felt the need to make the right call. Otherwise, the DC would have exploded. So it depends which coach you are in that situation, but someone is going to be mad. Making the call the way I saw it helped me sleep that night.

On missed base calls I quickly judge in my mind whether I'm 100% certain, before I can be influenced. So if I make the call it's because I'm waiting to see if they caught it too. If I wonder for even a split second, if there is a 1% chance I was not at the perfect angle and the inside of his foot brushed it, I decide I did not see it.

So you're saying that you *can* be influenced?

[umpire_scott]

Pops,

Are you 100% certain he missed the bag?

There are some calls that are borderline, but missing a base has to be a 100% certainty with me. I saw him miss when I looked at him rounding the base. I was even more sure when the DC yelled from the dugout...he saw it too. However, I must admit that the third base coach made an amazing argument which made me replay the event in my head several times after I left the field. Believe me, it would have been easier to just say he touched it and avoid controversy, but I felt the need to make the right call. Otherwise, the DC would have exploded. So it depends which coach you are in that situation, but someone is going to be mad. Making the call the way I saw it helped me sleep that night.

On missed base calls I quickly judge in my mind whether I'm 100% certain, before I can be influenced. So if I make the call it's because I'm waiting to see if they caught it too. If I wonder for even a split second, if there is a 1% chance I was not at the perfect angle and the inside of his foot brushed it, I decide I did not see it.

So you're saying that you *can* be influenced?

I was referring to the other poster that said "I was even more sure then the DC yelled it out". I was just emphasizing that I make my mind up before someone yells it. Anyone can be influenced on things they are not sure of.

[Welpe]

If one is willing to ignore a missed base (that they know was missed) because they don't want to have an impact on a close game, he needs to have a serious self examination about why he is an umpire.

We have got to have the integrity to make the unpopular call because by not doing so, we are putting our own influence on the game.

[stl_ump]

IMO the minute we start seeing selectively is the minute we stop doing our jobs

Stick around 30 years and see how you answer. When you watch a young kid struggle for 5 or 6 years, and he sticks with it, and finally makes a great play/hit/moment. You will remember that longer than anything else you ever do. Mine was Tristin Talbot. Trout probably knows the name of his too!!

Danny maybe its just me but If im spot on with regards to a rule than I dont mind being "THAT GUY"

I hope I am alive when it happens to you. A nothing game where the young kid underdog/downtrodden/last guy always picked hits his first, maybe only, big one. You step right up there and take that home run away from him for missing a base. Go ahead. Sleep well my friend!

That phrase has always bugged me. (not withstanding the situation we are talking about in this thread) The umpire takes nothing away from anyone. He just enforces the rules. How about the side that appealed the missed base? Why aren't they blamed for taking it away? Or the guy that actually missed the base? Why is it the umpire that gets the blame?

[johnnyg08]

That phrase has always bugged me. (not withstanding the situation we are talking about in this thread) The umpire takes nothing away from anyone. He just enforces the rules. The offender is the one who "took it away". He did it himself.

I agree. Enforce the rules. Enforcing the rules is not taking anything away except from the team executing the appeal.

[stl_ump]

If one is willing to ignore a missed base (that they know was missed) because they don't want to have an impact on a close game, he needs to have a serious self examination about why he is an umpire.

We have got to have the integrity to make the unpopular call because by not doing so, we are putting our own influence on the game.

I had one of those last night. 4th inning, 0-0 and R1 steals second, and as he is getting up he steps off the base for a moment and is tagged - OUT. From then on out everytime a guy stole they were asking for time after the steal. I guess they learned their lesson.