Foul Tip versus Pop Fly

[Guest Ken Cenicola]

Everyone thinks that if there are less than two outs and the catcher catches a ball that struck the batter's bat, that the batter is only out if the ball rises above the batter's head. I can find no reference to this common occurence in the printed major league rules.

Where in the rules does it state that a ball struck by the batter and caught by the catcher is not an out unless the batted ball is a certain height?

[mstaylor]

Rule two, foul tip. A foul tip is a ball struck by the batter that goes directly to the catcher and caught. The ball is live and a strike. If it's not a foul tip it is a foul ball. A foul ball caught in the air is an out. You will find no height reference.

[Richvee]

Rule 2.0 Definition of a Foul Tip is a ball that goes "Sharp and direct" into the catchers glove. This is a strike and the ball remains in play. If it's a 3rd strike, the batter is out.

If the batter hits the ball and the ball does NOT go sharp and direct (FED rules have a case play where they say the ball has a "perceptible arc"), you have a pop up, and if caught, it is an out.

None of this has anything to do with the number of outs.

[scrounge]

Nowhere....it's defined in reverse, actually. It's a foul tip and not an out (unless it's strike three, then it's an out and a live ball) IF the ball goes directly and sharply into the catcher's mitt and is caught. Otherwise, it's a foul ball and subject to being caught for an out, number of outs notwithstanding.

[mstaylor]

At least we are consistant. :)

[Richvee]

At least we are consistant.

Consistent and within a minute of each other!

[kylejt]

Everyone thinks .......

Classic.

[Jocko]

Of course everyone thinks. "Evryone" thinks alot of crap that's incorrect.

[sdix00]

This is actually a "thing", not necessarily a myth. And like several baseball myths, it originated from Softball (as far as I can tell). This was changed in 2006.

Sorry for the bad pic. The ASA book is printed on recycled paper and is virtually unreadable.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for everyone chiming in here, I really appreciate the feedback. It no wonder that over time people have created unwritten rules that clearly define that a pop-up is a ball hit above the batters head. The word Pop Up does not even appear in the major league rules. A ball fouled back to the catcher can certainly have a perceivable arc and NOT be over the batters head as it did in yesterdays softball game. But if an umpire calls that a pop fly out with one strike on the batter, he will likely be attacked by everyone on the batters team. What constitutes "sharp and direct" when the batter is 9 years old and the ball is a softball and the struck ball has English on it and rises a bit as it reaches the catcher? Depends what team your on!

[Guest Ken Cenicola]

Thanks for everyone chiming in here, I really appreciate the feedback. It no wonder that over time people have created unwritten rules that clearly define that a pop-up is a ball hit above the batters head. The word Pop Up does not even appear in the major league rules. A ball fouled back to the catcher can certainly have a perceivable arc and NOT be over the batters head as it did in yesterdays softball game. But if an umpire calls that a pop fly out with one strike on the batter, he will likely be attacked by everyone on the batters team. What constitutes "sharp and direct" when the batter is 9 years old and the ball is a softball and the struck ball has English on it and rises a bit as it reaches the catcher? Depends what team your on!

[Rich Ives]

Thanks for everyone chiming in here, I really appreciate the feedback. It no wonder that over time people have created unwritten rules that clearly define that a pop-up is a ball hit above the batters head. The word Pop Up does not even appear in the major league rules. A ball fouled back to the catcher can certainly have a perceivable arc and NOT be over the batters head as it did in yesterdays softball game. But if an umpire calls that a pop fly out with one strike on the batter, he will likely be attacked by everyone on the batters team. What constitutes "sharp and direct" when the batter is 9 years old and the ball is a softball and the struck ball has English on it and rises a bit as it reaches the catcher? Depends what team your on!

So was your team the rewarded one or victim of the perceived bad call? :)

[Umpire in Chief]

Here is a great play I have bookmarked because it is so useful in foul tip discussions.

The ball is swung at tipped directly to McCann's glove where it is popped up and McCann then catches it.

There is also an older video out there somewhere (Thunderheads, your mission, should you choose to accept it is to find the video of...) a swing tipped to the glove and ricochets out where the first baseman makes a spectacular catch in foul territory for the out.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5525599&c_id=mlb

[cbiesecker]

Here is a great play I have bookmarked because it is so useful in foul tip discussions.

The ball is swung at tipped directly to McCann's glove where it is popped up and McCann then catches it.

UIC, excellent video. If the count had been say 3-0 on this play, then it would have just been a strike, correct? Ball remains alive, runners can advance at their own risk, and the count is now 3-1.

[sdix00]

Here is a great play I have bookmarked because it is so useful in foul tip discussions.

The ball is swung at tipped directly to McCann's glove where it is popped up and McCann then catches it.

UIC, excellent video. If the count had been say 3-0 on this play, then it would have just been a strike, correct? Ball remains alive, runners can advance at their own risk, and the count is now 3-1.

Correct. Because the ball went sharp and direct to F2's mitt, and was subsequently caught in flight, it is a strike and a live ball.

[cbiesecker]

That's what I thought. I could just see this play happening at a youth game and the coaches wanting to know why the batter isn't out since F2 caught the foul ball. Can't even imagine the noise that would be coming from the parents. Though thankfully the likely hood of a youth F2 making this play is slim.