Calling FOUL

[Thunderheads]

Hi guys, ...

This question comes from another thread on another site, and I didn't want to hi-jack the thread, but ...thought I'd post it quickly over here.....

Here's the simple scenario: I'm BU. On a ball that's struck by the batter, and hits the batters foot, and the PU doesn't see it (nothing is said or signaled right away) and I DO see it .... I kill it, yes?!? Meaning, this is a call that must be made as it happens, and you're not overstepping your bounds as BU here?

I know this is rhetorical, but, .....just double checking ...

Thanks!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Thunderheads

[dawg-man]

When I work with someone I always tell the BU that if you see it to go ahead and call it. I have seen someguys wait until the batter either gets on base or is thrown out and then they ask. To me it just looks better to call it when it happens.

[Thunderheads]

When I work with someone I always tell the BU that if you see it to go ahead and call it. I have seen someguys wait until the batter either gets on base or is thrown out and then they ask. To me it just looks better to call it when it happens.

Thanks dawg-man, I agree, ...and maybe this belongs over in "mechanics", but I'm just double checking as this would NOT be a situation where you're 'over-ruling' the PU, or, calling something you shouldn't, right?

[dawg-man]

I would say that you are not over ruing at all. I do ask the BU to be sure it has hit them before calling it. I am not a big fan of " I thought it hit him(her). I try and stress at pregame that we are the third team out there and as a team we need to work together. That to me is helping to get it right, not over ruling.

[Guest]

The 100% proper mechanic in this situation is for BU to call "time" when he sees the ball hit the batter while in the box.

Reasoning behind that is to prevent new umpires from developing bad habits - AKA to prevent a SH*#storm if the PU is going to rule that it struck the batter outside of the batter's box.

However, those of us who are competant enough to tell the difference between a batter who is clearly standing in the box and a batter who may have been hit out of the box can keep it simple and just say "foul"

You do not need an invitation from PU before or during the game to make this call from across the field.

If you see it, call it.

If you think it hit the batter but aren't sure, read the reaction of the batter and also note where the ball ends up. It does not take a physics major to figure out where a ball truly off a batter's foot should end up.

And if the batter does try to sell it, and hops around on the wrong leg (as I had happen this year), proceed to mock him for the rest of the game.

[Umpire in Chief]

If you see it and are certain call it.

A few weeks ago I saw it and didn't call it and felt like a schmuck when the batter was thrown out. I delayed too long. I thought I saw it but tried to read the batter to make sure. He sprinted to first but was out by a mile. As he passed by he said the ball hit his foot.

Here's a criticisim I'll make of umpires in general. There are times when we rely on the players to sway us in our calls such as a HBP or a foul off the batter. I'm guilty of this myself that when we don't call it when we should of we often put the blame on the player, "They should have sold me on that and I would have given it to them." But in the next situation we'll say, "If the player were doing what they were supposed to do..." We can't have it both ways. We need to call it right then as we see it and not rely on their help, cooperation or even making a play.

[jnazz]

I've been told to give the PU a second to call it. If you see that PU isn't going to make a call, then kill it. This is to prevent the double call. And yes, as ump24 mentioned, the Baseball Canada mechanic is to call TIME as the BU. I heard of a protest at a Senior Mens National over this very situation (not sure exactly what happened) --- that's why this mechanic is stressed at the National Clinic.

[yawetag]

I kill these immediately as BU. No waiting necessary.

[mstaylor]

I have heard guys say want a second but I teach to kill it imediately. If both of you get it who cares.

[Stan W.]

I kill these immediately as BU. No waiting necessary.

Im with yawetag...............and its one of the things I cover in my pregame with a partner every time............if you see it call it......

[mstaylor]

On the other side of the coin, if a coach asks me to check with my partner I will refuse. I tell him if he had it he would have killed it and since he hadn't, it didn't happen.

[spiritumpa]

On the other side of the coin, if a coach asks me to check with my partner I will refuse. I tell him if he had it he would have killed it and since he hadn't, it didn't happen.

good point--because if you ask for help and your partner says foul (why?? but I have seen it happen)after you ask --you have a Shxt storm from the coaches for not killing it ASAP--the defense thinks they have a easy out and them it is taken away from them or the BR makes first and them is taken first base because of the call foul--much better for the BU to call time ASAP.

[BrianC14]

Im with yawetag...............and its one of the things I cover in my pregame with a partner every time............if you see it call it......

+1 !

Pregame, pregame, pregame.

And yes, the proper thing to do on this is to kill it - by calling it what it is - FOUL!

[yawetag]

And yes, the proper thing to do on this is to kill it - by calling it what it is - FOUL!

Depends. If it's immediately after the swing, I'll call foul. If it's any time after the batter's started moving toward first, I'm calling "TIME!" PU would have the better angle on if he's in the box or not.

[UMP45]

Brianc14, Lets take this one step further. When the ball goes into the dugout or any deadball area what do you call?:(

[UmpTTS43]

When there is a situation where, as BU, I kill the ball while the batter is in the box, I call "Time." By calling "foul" you are calling the ball foul when there may have been other factors involved including interference or an illegally batted ball that you may be unaware of. By simply calling time, you are killing it without giving an explanation why. Let the plate umpire determine what the correct call for time is.

[widac]

I agree with the general consensus here. Pre-game it and call it when you see it. If I'm on the plate I'll tell my partner that if he sees it to call it and that I won't be coming to him if the coach complains either way. If I'm on the bases If my partner doesn't mention it I'll just say 'If I see a batted ball hit the batter, I'll kill it'. This is something that happens every game and should be mentioned pre-game.

[detailshp]

The 100% proper mechanic in this situation is for BU to call "time" when he sees the ball hit the batter while in the box.

Reasoning behind that is to prevent new umpires from developing bad habits - AKA to prevent a SH*#storm if the PU is going to rule that it struck the batter outside of the batter's box.

However, those of us who are competant enough to tell the difference between a batter who is clearly standing in the box and a batter who may have been hit out of the box can keep it simple and just say "foul"

You do not need an invitation from PU before or during the game to make this call from across the field.

If you see it, call it.

If you think it hit the batter but aren't sure, read the reaction of the batter and also note where the ball ends up. It does not take a physics major to figure out where a ball truly off a batter's foot should end up.

And if the batter does try to sell it, and hops around on the wrong leg (as I had happen this year), proceed to mock him for the rest of the game.

Or, if your Derek Jeter, they can mock you on national TV. Kill it. If you saw it, your not overruling anyone. Your reacting to a struck ball, which either umpire should rightfully do.

[sdix00]

I've been told to give the PU a second to call it. If you see that PU isn't going to make a call, then kill it. This is to prevent the double call.

This is what I have read in both Evans's "Maximizing" and the CCA Manual.

I do it this way and it works just fine. Incidentally on a 90' diamond, I have never seen it well enough to call it from 'A', even though I was 80% sure, I still let it go. But from B and C, this has been a no-brainer. See it, wait a beat, call it.

[UmpTTS43]

This is what I have read in both Evans's "Maximizing" and the CCA Manual.

I do it this way and it works just fine. Incidentally on a 90' diamond, I have never seen it well enough to call it from 'A', even though I was 80% sure, I still let it go. But from B and C, this has been a no-brainer. See it, wait a beat, call it.

Don't sell yourself short. While working a 4 man crew, I was 3BU with a right handed batter up. I saw a batted ball go off of the batter's left, lead, foot and waited for other umpires to call it since I was the one that had the worst view of the play. After the ball was put into play, I got the crew together and noone else saw it. The batter was also the catcher at the time. When he went back out for defense, PU asked him if the ball went off his foot. He said yes. Since he was safe at first, there is no reason not to believe him. Morale of the story, if you see it, call it.

[mstaylor]

I always tell guys to call time and let the PU figure it out.