Balls and Strikes

[MCump]

Now I will admit, I tend to have a short leash and that leash gets shorter when it is an assistant coach.

U13 select ball tonight, bottom of the second inning HT down 4-1. Catcher sets up inside pitch is on the outside corner but he is reaching, I hear the 3rd base Asst Coach yell, "Blue the plate is only 17" wide he reached 2 feet" I immediately throw up the stop sign. Next pitch, batter dives out of the way as a curveball catches the inside corner. Again I hear griping but he doesn't address me so I leave it alone. After the inning (only the second of course) as he is walking back to his dugout he says to me "you have to stay consistent with your strike zone" (I'm still thinking to myself I haven't seen two pitches in the same location all night) and so I tell him I don't talk about balls and strikes with assistant coaches. He takes a few more steps then turns and says something more about how he just wants the calls to be the same and I give him the heave ho. He then of course goes on a tirade of how hes been playing baseball longer than I've been alive and tells his head coach that he has already been tossed so he is going to get his two cents in. When I ejected him I held my ground and then just started walking toward center field when he started yelling. My partner and the HC walked him off finally, but turns out he tried to sit right behind me in the bleachers, and then when I tell him to leave the premises he thought I meant go to the concessions stand. My partner and the HC finally got him to the parking lot and out of sight.

This is my first time posting on here so go easy on me. Just wanted to pass this one along

[buddywilshire]

Go easy on you? Youn did nothing wrong. I'm sure a few guys will even say dump him faster! /good toss

Stupid" I'm getting my two cents worth sense I've been tossed" it is the second inning, why does he have two cents from? Sounds like a jerk, toss away

[yawetag]

My partner and the HC walked him off finally, but turns out he tried to sit right behind me in the bleachers, and then when I tell him to leave the premises he thought I meant go to the concessions stand. My partner and the HC finally got him to the parking lot and out of sight.

After he's left the field, DON'T talk to him again. If he's in the bleachers, tell the coach's manager that you're stopping the game and won't resume until the coach is off the premises. At that point, it's not your job (or your partner's) to deal with him.

[Guest]

Now I will admit, I tend to have a short leash and that leash gets shorter when it is an assistant coach.

The leash on assistant coaches is short to begin with. That is why they are assistants. No problems here.

U13 select ball tonight, bottom of the second inning HT down 4-1. Catcher sets up inside pitch is on the outside corner but he is reaching, I hear the 3rd base Asst Coach yell, "Blue the plate is only 17" wide he reached 2 feet" I immediately throw up the stop sign.

How well do you know the HC? The AC? If you know the AC well, go ahead and add some type of verbal warning to this. If you don't know the AC, put it in the HC's lap:

"Dan (HC), you know arguing balls and strikes is intolerable, let alone from your assistants. Please control your staff."

Next pitch, batter dives out of the way as a curveball catches the inside corner. Again I hear griping but he doesn't address me so I leave it alone.

Define griping?

Are we talking about the typical moans and groans, or something loud for the entire park to hear? The closer it is to the latter, the faster you should be dumping them.

After the inning (only the second of course) as he is walking back to his dugout he says to me "you have to stay consistent with your strike zone" (I'm still thinking to myself I haven't seen two pitches in the same location all night) and so I tell him I don't talk about balls and strikes with assistant coaches.

This was your cue to launch him. Not only has he revived an argument, but its about balls and strikes, AND he got personal! You've got three angles to play here.

He takes a few more steps then turns and says something more about how he just wants the calls to be the same and I give him the heave ho. He then of course goes on a tirade of how hes been playing baseball longer than I've been alive and tells his head coach that he has already been tossed so he is going to get his two cents in. When I ejected him I held my ground and then just started walking toward center field when he started yelling. My partner and the HC walked him off finally, but turns out he tried to sit right behind me in the bleachers, and then when I tell him to leave the premises he thought I meant go to the concessions stand. My partner and the HC finally got him to the parking lot and out of sight.

When you dump an AC, they immediately evaporate into thin air, in your mind at least. It is up to your partner to keep him from getting said two cents in, and the HC to get him out of there. If the HC just sits on his bucket in the bench, and the AC is refusing to leave, after a period of time, tell the HC he can vacate the park with his buddy.

If you get an ejected party off the field and they won't leave the stands / sight and sound / whatever your league constitution says must happen, dump it in the lap of whoever is in charge of that team.

If it gets ridiculous, pull the teams off the field, and pick off a coach, starting at the bottom (you want the guy in charge there as long as possible), until you are either out of coaches or the ejected person finally leaves.

[Stan W.]

I have a short leash on assistants as well...........I got nothing wrong with what you did... the ejection was valid......

[MPLSMatt]

I would've tossed him too. You handled it perfectly. If I had one thing to add, in addition to the stop sign I'd pull the mask off, take a couple of steps and give a very clear "that's enough." Between innings, mention to the head coach that you don't expect to hear anything else about balls and strikes (but he didn't give you a chance to do that so good toss).

I would also put the "I'm getting my money's worth" comment on the ejection report. Many leagues (including MLB) add extra punishment for persisting after an ejection, especially when you declare tit first.

Where are you in WI, Matt? I grew up in Superior.

[MCump]

I'm in Southeastern Wisconsin. As a follow-up the commish of the league contacted me today and asked me to clarify a few things about after he had been ejected, trying to stay and watch and afterwards, what he had yelled after he got tossed, and told me he was recommending to the board a 2 game suspension for this coach instead of the normal one game.

Thanks for the comments everyone, I've really enjoyed reading much of this forum and I'm glad I finally got to post something.

[spiritump]

plus the AC (small rat) say keep it fair---what is he saying --that you are cheating??? tell the HC(big Rat) to handle his coach or the HC goes also--good job

[catoblue]

Good toss.

As a couple other mentioned, once he was off the field, your best recourse to get him to leave the vicinity of the field is to put both teams on the bench until he leaves. Neither you or your partner should leave the field to get rid of him.

[persong]

sounds like you did exactly what should have been done. I got to hear from the scorebook guy last night after the game that I "ruined it for the kids". Yeah, I tossed him even though the game was over and it was the last playoff game.

[Paperipper17]

Good toss and well-handled. Little rats shouldn't get any sort of leash at all...most rulebooks say any AC arguing a call is an automatic EJ. Of course, as humans, we give a little leeway. The whole heat-of-the-battle thing. Of course I'm not going to toss an AC just because he disagreed with a call...but I'd do just what you did, throw up the stop sign and follow through when he doesn't stay quiet.

[tjwoelfel13]

He dropped the you and ignored a warning. When put together that equals an trip to the parking lot.

 

Once off the field he is now the head coach's or field supervisor's problem. I agree with catoblue. Pull the kids until the rat boards the train to the parking lot and stays aboard. Eventually the HC or the parents will get tired of the delay and make him leave.  

[JaxRolo]

He dropped the you and ignored a warning. When put together that equals an trip to the parking lot. Once off the field he is now the head coach's or field supervisor's problem. I agree with catoblue. Pull the kids until the rat boards the train to the parking lot and stays aboard. Eventually the HC or the parents will get tired of the delay and make him leave.

3 years old

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

He dropped the you and ignored a warning. When put together that equals an trip to the parking lot. Once off the field he is now the head coach's or field supervisor's problem. I agree with catoblue. Pull the kids until the rat boards the train to the parking lot and stays aboard. Eventually the HC or the parents will get tired of the delay and make him leave.

3 years old

 

It's what I like to call an "Easter thread". There has been a resurrection....

[tjwoelfel13]

I'm new here and I didn't know that replying to an old post would move it to the top. I apologize for causing such an uproar.

[ricka56]

I'm new here and I didn't know that replying to an old post would move it to the top. I apologize for causing such an uproar.

This is the off-season. There isn't much new stuff here to discuss. If you read something old and want to add/ask something, go for it. Those that don't want to reply to the old threads only have to skip them. Others will try to help out a new/young umpire.

 

Most of your posts come under the category of game management. Anyone can call balls/strikes/safe/out, but game management is the hardest part of umpiring. Don't go looking for ejections, but plan for them. If a coach is misbehaving, warm them. On the way back to your position, think about where your line is. When coach cross that line again, EJ.

 

Another tip that might keep you out of trouble. When you see coaches coming out to argue a call, wait for them to arrive (do not yell back at them as they approach). As they come out, plan on what you are going to say in response to their complaint, and keep it simple. "The throw beat the runner", or "The runner beat the throw". Don't talk too much and give them ammunition to continue the arguement. After listening to them for a reasonable ammount of time (short) Tell them enough, lets get back to baseball. Warn/EJ if they won't comply.