When did the balk occur

[cbiesecker]

Had an odd one last night. Bases loaded, F1 is in the set position, hands are still apart. He lifts his free foot, takes a step towards towards third, and feints a throw. Then while his pivot foot is still in contact with the rubber, he lifts his free foot and steps towards second while feinting a throw, and then proceeds to do the same thing to first, pivot foot still in contact, steps to first and feints a throw. Essentially he spun around on the rubber while taking a step towards each base. This is what I got.

Step and feint towards third - legal

Followed by step and feint towards second - not sure

Followed by step and feint towards first - balk

Pivot foot remained in contact with the rubber the entire time.

I got the balk, but should I have called it on the move towards second?

[LMSANS]

Had an odd one last night. Bases loaded, F1 is in the set position, hands are still apart. He lifts his free foot, takes a step towards towards third, and feints a throw. Then while his pivot foot is still in contact with the rubber, he lifts his free foot and steps towards second while feinting a throw, and then proceeds to do the same thing to first, pivot foot still in contact, steps to first and feints a throw. Essentially he spun around on the rubber while taking a step towards each base. This is what I got.

Step and feint towards third - legal

Followed by step and feint towards second - not sure

Followed by step and feint towards third - balk

Pivot foot remained in contact with the rubber the entire time.

I got the balk, but should I have called it on the move towards second?

I think it was TIM C who said YCBTSB...You can't balk to second base. What rule set?

[cbiesecker]

Rule set is OBR. I forgot to mention that in the OP.

[noumpere]

I think you got it right because on the usual move where this is just done at third and then first the balk is for feinting to first from the rubber. Since you can feint to second from the rubber then the second move in your play should be allowed.

[sdix00]

I have the balk the minute he began to step to 2B. While a step to 2B from the rubber is legal, it must be a direct step. F1, first went to 3B then started to 2B. This is not a direct step. Balk. 1B is irrelevant to me at that point.

In order to feint to any base in OBR, he must step directly to that base prior to the feint.

[Minnz]

I think it was TIM C who said YCBTSB...You can't balk to second base. What rule set?

That is very wrong. We recently saw a right hand pitcher take the mound feet wise as a lefty with a runner on second base. Was to throw off runner and catch him on a pick off where he did not have to turn. That would be a balk right there.

[sdix00]

I think it was TIM C who said YCBTSB...You can't balk to second base. What rule set?

That is very wrong.

Careful.

We recently saw a right hand pitcher take the mound feet wise as a lefty with a runner on second base. Was to throw off runner and catch him on a pick off where he did not have to turn. That would be a balk right there.

whut?

[carolinablue]

If he takes the rubber backwards, it's not a balk to 2B, it's a balk for an illegal pitching position.

[BT_Blue]

Agreed with Carolina. That or it could be a balk for not gaining distance to towards the bag.

As for the OP. I too have a balk when he tries to pick to second. Not for the feint but for not disengaging from the pitching rubber.

[Replacematt]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

[Jimurray]

Three feints, everybody yelling back, no runners picked off and we are going to move the runners up and score a run? There had to be a disengage, even if minuscule, on the first feint. Once the foot lands back on the rubber it is not intentionally there for the purposes of the pitching regulations.

[carolinablue]

Both set and windup positions require pitcher to be facing the batter and the pivot foot to be in contact with the rubber. Neither would be true if F1 is engaged backwards.

[Replacematt]

Both set and windup positions require pitcher to be facing the batter and the pivot foot to be in contact with the rubber. Neither would be true if F1 is engaged backwards.

What defines the pivot foot? Is it the foot in contact, or the foot of the hand?

[Jimurray]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

Don't hijack the thread. OBR doesn't define the pivot foot, everybody else does.

[Rich Ives]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

Don't hijack the thread. OBR doesn't define the pivot foot, everybody else does.

OBR 2.00 The pitcher’s PIVOT FOOT is that foot which is in contact with the pitcher’s plate as he delivers the pitch.

[Jimurray]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

Don't hijack the thread. <acronym title='Official Baseball Rules'>OBR</acronym> doesn't define the pivot foot, everybody else does.

<acronym title='Official Baseball Rules'>OBR</acronym> 2.00 The pitcher’s PIVOT FOOT is that foot which is in contact with the pitcher’s plate as he delivers the pitch.

You already hijacked it. OK, OBR defines it but doesn't relate it to the pitching arm.

[Replacematt]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

Don't hijack the thread. OBR doesn't define the pivot foot, everybody else does.

I'm not hijacking anything. If you're going to call a balk, you need to kknow specifically why something is illegal.

[Replacematt]

What makes it an illegal pitching position?

Don't hijack the thread. <acronym title='Official Baseball Rules'>OBR</acronym> doesn't define the pivot foot, everybody else does.

<acronym title='Official Baseball Rules'>OBR</acronym> 2.00 The pitcher’s PIVOT FOOT is that foot which is in contact with the pitcher’s plate as he delivers the pitch.

You already hijacked it. OK, OBR defines it but doesn't relate it to the pitching arm.

So, then it's not a balk in OBR.

[cbiesecker]

Ok, after distilling down all the input, it sounds like I got it right.

RHP

Step and feint towards third - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards third and then stepped and feinted towards second - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards second and then stepped and feinted towards first - balk for not throwing to first

Right (pivot) foot remained in contact with the rubber the entire time. F1 had his right foot on TOP of the rubber and was essentially spinning on it.

Thanks for the help.

[Welpe]

In OBR, a pitcher much disengage while making a 3rd to 1st move. Would that apply here as well when making a 3rd to 2nd move?

[noumpere]

I have the balk the minute he began to step to 2B. While a step to 2B from the rubber is legal, it must be a direct step. F1, first went to 3B then started to 2B. This is not a direct step. Balk. 1B is irrelevant to me at that point.

In order to feint to any base in OBR, he must step directly to that base prior to the feint.

Yes I agree for some reason I was thinking HS when I answered but the poster then clarified it was Pro OBR.

[carolinablue]

Matt, are you saying you would not call a balk if a pitcher "engaged" the rubber backwards with runners on ?

Also maybe I will drop the pivot foot as part of an explanation but he still has to be facing the batter.

[sdix00]

Ok, after distilling down all the input, it sounds like I got it right.

RHP

Step and feint towards third - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards third and then stepped and feinted towards second - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards second and then stepped and feinted towards first - balk for not throwing to first

Right (pivot) foot remained in contact with the rubber the entire time. F1 had his right foot on TOP of the rubber and was essentially spinning on it.

Thanks for the help.

Picked front foot up from step towards third and then stepped and feinted towards second - illegal in OBR

[grayhawk]

Ok, after distilling down all the input, it sounds like I got it right.

RHP

Step and feint towards third - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards third and then stepped and feinted towards second - legal

Picked front foot up from step towards second and then stepped and feinted towards first - balk for not throwing to first

Right (pivot) foot remained in contact with the rubber the entire time. F1 had his right foot on TOP of the rubber and was essentially spinning on it.

Thanks for the help.

Picked front foot up from step towards third and then stepped and feinted towards second - illegal in OBR

I'm with Stephen. In order to throw or feint to any base, while on the rubber, the pitcher must step "directly" towards that base. Stepping towards third and THEN stepping towards second, all while engaged, is NOT a direct step to second. Balk him here.

[cbiesecker]

Thanks for clarification.

So, even though I called the balk, I called it one move too late. When the play happened, I remember thinking at the time of the move towards second "what do I do about that", but after he continued and made the feint to first I thought "thank you, now I know what to do." I learned something new again on U-E.

BTW, the play happened during a scrimmage, so after the game on the way to the parking lot, the player and his dad were close by. I called them over and explained the balk call. When I see him again, I'll further clarify based on what I learned. Was/is this the right thing to do? BTW, it was a 12u scrimmage.