Interference

[jkumpire]

I am massively late on this, but please listen to Mr. Ives, he is totally correct:

1. R1 does not have to slide, so FPSR doe snot apply.

2. In the play, there is no INF described by R1's actions, unless something really wierd happened on the play.

Now for my .02:

According to the FED Rules Committee the most injuries occur in HS BB when a player is sliding into a base, be it because of contact, lack of skill, bad fundamentals, or fear of getting hurt. So FED writes rules like OBS and warning on a Fake tag, and the rule saying a player does not have to slide going into a base. the less sliding the better for FED. So there is no mandatory slide rule, and umpires have to make a judgement about INT when the situation is weighted in favor of the runner in a case like this.

It would not surprise me that in the very near future FED will outlaw the head-first slide (concussion risk) and require a runner sliding "to make contact with at least one hip or buttock on the ground in the act of sliding" with INF being the call if he doesn't. That keeps the head away from contact at bases.

Is the don't have to slide rule bad? What do you think?

[JaxRolo]

MarkW/ if you are playing Fed then yes. OBR then no.

NCAA - I don't know

[mstaylor]

jk, you are correct, you don't have to slide, but you can still cause a violation. It sounds more like either nothing or normal interference. Sorry if I confused the issue.

[mrumpiresir]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

[grayhawk]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

Pop up slides are NOT illegal. Pop up slides into the fielder are illegal. That may be what you were saying, but making an encompassing statement that pop up slides are illegal is incorrect.

[mrumpiresir]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

Pop up slides are NOT illegal. Pop up slides into the fielder are illegal. That may be what you were saying, but making an encompassing statement that pop up slides are illegal is incorrect.

You are correct. We are discussing FPSR and pop up slides are illegal in this context. A pop up slide or going in standing up on a FPSR situation, as I have been taught, are both illegal. In fact our association instructs that if a runner slides in a FPSR situation, the runner must stay down, thus no pop up slides allowed.

[UmpTTS43]

In FED pop up slides are legal as long as you don't make contact with a fielder or alter the play.

[BRUMP]

@mrumpiresir pop up slides are not illegal if no contact is made and the play is not altered.

[grayhawk]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

Pop up slides are NOT illegal. Pop up slides into the fielder are illegal. That may be what you were saying, but making an encompassing statement that pop up slides are illegal is incorrect.

You are correct. We are discussing FPSR and pop up slides are illegal in this context. A pop up slide or going in standing up on a FPSR situation, as I have been taught, are both illegal. In fact our association instructs that if a runner slides in a FPSR situation, the runner must stay down, thus no pop up slides allowed.

Are you saying that on a force play, if the runner does a pop up slide without making contact or altering the play, that your association instructs you to invoke FPSR and call the BR out?

[Jocko]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

Pop up slides are NOT illegal. Pop up slides into the fielder are illegal. That may be what you were saying, but making an encompassing statement that pop up slides are illegal is incorrect.

You are correct. We are discussing FPSR and pop up slides are illegal in this context. A pop up slide or going in standing up on a FPSR situation, as I have been taught, are both illegal. In fact our association instructs that if a runner slides in a FPSR situation, the runner must stay down, thus no pop up slides allowed.

Are you saying that on a force play, if the runner does a pop up slide without making contact or altering the play, that your association instructs you to invoke FPSR and call the BR out?

not unequivocally. If, IMO, the slide was not a determining factor in the DT's NOT turning the DP, I got a big THAT'S NOTHING

[grayhawk]

not unequivocally. If, IMO, the slide was not a determining factor in the DT's NOT turning the DP, I got a big THAT'S NOTHING

I'd be careful with that. The result is not what we are looking at. Did the pop up slide create contact or alter the play - that is the litmus test.

[mrumpiresir]

If a runner does not slide legally, we will get two outs on the FPSR. If he doesn't slide and doesn't veer off and in any way hinders the fielder, we will get two outs on the FPSR.

If pop up slides are illegal, how can anyone argue that going in standing up and altering the play doesn't result in two outs?

I will get two outs every time on this play.

Pop up slides are NOT illegal. Pop up slides into the fielder are illegal. That may be what you were saying, but making an encompassing statement that pop up slides are illegal is incorrect.

You are correct. We are discussing FPSR and pop up slides are illegal in this context. A pop up slide or going in standing up on a FPSR situation, as I have been taught, are both illegal. In fact our association instructs that if a runner slides in a FPSR situation, the runner must stay down, thus no pop up slides allowed.

Are you saying that on a force play, if the runner does a pop up slide without making contact or altering the play, that your association instructs you to invoke FPSR and call the BR out?

That's what they are saying, but in reality, if he doesn't alter the play, I wouldn't call it . But any benefit of the doubt goes to the defense.

Fed is basing this whole situation around safety and the protection of the fielder. You can't take the pivot man out as they do in pro ball. Heck, you can't even get in his way as he attempts the relay to first.

[mrumpiresir]

I was umpiring HS ball long before the FPSR was created and remember being taught the following principles which are an excerpt from the state interpreter.

THE FORCE OUT:

While the force-play slide rule applies to all bases, any controversy

surrounding this rule normally comes from a play at second base. If the

player chooses to slide when there is a force situation the runner MUST

SLIDE DIRECTLY into the base with the lead leg low (at ground level).

The runner must keep his entire body down as well. In other words the rule

says SLIDE STRAIGHT INTO THE BASE, STOP THERE AND STAY

DOWN!!!

1. There is no “going out†to get the infielder.

2. There is no “pop-up†slide.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base. (Force or Non-force)

4. There is no “slashing,†or “kicking†at the infielder.

5. There are no “roll blocksâ€.

6. There are no “attempts to contact the infielderâ€.

It is legal to slide “away†from the fielder or not slide at all as long as the

runner CLEARLY avoids making ANY contact with the fielder in an attempt

to alter or influence his play.

[Jocko]

not unequivocally. If, IMO, the slide was not a determining factor in the DT's NOT turning the DP, I got a big THAT'S NOTHING

I'd be careful with that. The result is not what we are looking at. Did the pop up slide create contact or alter the play - that is the litmus test.

exactly my point

[mstaylor]

I was umpiring HS ball long before the FPSR was created and remember being taught the following principles which are an excerpt from the state interpreter.

THE FORCE OUT:

While the force-play slide rule applies to all bases, any controversy

surrounding this rule normally comes from a play at second base. If the

player chooses to slide when there is a force situation the runner MUST

SLIDE DIRECTLY into the base with the lead leg low (at ground level).

The runner must keep his entire body down as well. In other words the rule

says SLIDE STRAIGHT INTO THE BASE, STOP THERE AND STAY

DOWN!!!

1. There is no “going out†to get the infielder.

2. There is no “pop-up†slide.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base. (Force or Non-force)

4. There is no “slashing,†or “kicking†at the infielder.

5. There are no “roll blocksâ€.

6. There are no “attempts to contact the infielderâ€.

It is legal to slide “away†from the fielder or not slide at all as long as the

runner CLEARLY avoids making ANY contact with the fielder in an attempt

to alter or influence his play.

That is not a bad list except for 6. If you slide legally at the base and contact the fielder in front of the base or on top of the base, he is fair game. If he is beside it or behind it then it is a violation.

[Jocko]

I was umpiring HS ball long before the FPSR was created and remember being taught the following principles which are an excerpt from the state interpreter.

THE FORCE OUT:

While the force-play slide rule applies to all bases, any controversy

surrounding this rule normally comes from a play at second base. If the

player chooses to slide when there is a force situation the runner MUST

SLIDE DIRECTLY into the base with the lead leg low (at ground level).

The runner must keep his entire body down as well. In other words the rule

says SLIDE STRAIGHT INTO THE BASE, STOP THERE AND STAY

DOWN!!!

1. There is no “going out†to get the infielder.

2. There is no “pop-up†slide.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base. (Force or Non-force)

4. There is no “slashing,†or “kicking†at the infielder.

5. There are no “roll blocksâ€.

6. There are no “attempts to contact the infielderâ€.

It is legal to slide “away†from the fielder or not slide at all as long as the

runner CLEARLY avoids making ANY contact with the fielder in an attempt

to alter or influence his play.

That is not a bad list except for 6. If you slide legally at the base and contact the fielder in front of the base or on top of the base, he is fair game. If he is beside it or behind it then it is a violation.

agreed. A legal slide with legal contact is legal

[grayhawk]

I was umpiring HS ball long before the FPSR was created and remember being taught the following principles which are an excerpt from the state interpreter.

THE FORCE OUT:

While the force-play slide rule applies to all bases, any controversy

surrounding this rule normally comes from a play at second base. If the

player chooses to slide when there is a force situation the runner MUST

SLIDE DIRECTLY into the base with the lead leg low (at ground level).

The runner must keep his entire body down as well. In other words the rule

says SLIDE STRAIGHT INTO THE BASE, STOP THERE AND STAY

DOWN!!!

1. There is no “going out†to get the infielder.

2. There is no “pop-up†slide.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base. (Force or Non-force)

4. There is no “slashing,†or “kicking†at the infielder.

5. There are no “roll blocksâ€.

6. There are no “attempts to contact the infielderâ€.

It is legal to slide “away†from the fielder or not slide at all as long as the

runner CLEARLY avoids making ANY contact with the fielder in an attempt

to alter or influence his play.

That is not a bad list except for 6. If you slide legally at the base and contact the fielder in front of the base or on top of the base, he is fair game. If he is beside it or behind it then it is a violation.

I'm not in agreement with 2 or 3 as stated. I would amend to read:

2. There is no “pop-up†slide that creates contact or alters the play.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base which then makes contact with the fielder or alters the play.

We've covered pop up slides, so no further comment on that. But a runner can slide past the base legally, depending on where the fielder is, and depending on how the umpires judges the contact. Sliding past the bag is not, in and of itself, illegal.

[mrumpiresir]

I was umpiring HS ball long before the FPSR was created and remember being taught the following principles which are an excerpt from the state interpreter.

THE FORCE OUT:

While the force-play slide rule applies to all bases, any controversy

surrounding this rule normally comes from a play at second base. If the

player chooses to slide when there is a force situation the runner MUST

SLIDE DIRECTLY into the base with the lead leg low (at ground level).

The runner must keep his entire body down as well. In other words the rule

says SLIDE STRAIGHT INTO THE BASE, STOP THERE AND STAY

DOWN!!!

1. There is no “going out†to get the infielder.

2. There is no “pop-up†slide.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base. (Force or Non-force)

4. There is no “slashing,†or “kicking†at the infielder.

5. There are no “roll blocksâ€.

6. There are no “attempts to contact the infielderâ€.

It is legal to slide “away†from the fielder or not slide at all as long as the

runner CLEARLY avoids making ANY contact with the fielder in an attempt

to alter or influence his play.

That is not a bad list except for 6. If you slide legally at the base and contact the fielder in front of the base or on top of the base, he is fair game. If he is beside it or behind it then it is a violation.

I'm not in agreement with 2 or 3 as stated. I would amend to read:

2. There is no “pop-up†slide that creates contact or alters the play.

3. There is no sliding “over†the base which then makes contact with the fielder or alters the play.

We've covered pop up slides, so no further comment on that. But a runner can slide past the base legally, depending on where the fielder is, and depending on how the umpires judges the contact. Sliding past the bag is not, in and of itself, illegal.

I think we are basically in agreement. For years I have been preaching that umpires need to use judgement in most situations. Those with experience will know when a FPSR violation occurs.

[grayhawk]

I think we are basically in agreement. For years I have been preaching that umpires need to use judgement in most situations. Those with experience will know when a FPSR violation occurs.

Absolutely. I just want to be sure that newer umpires don't see statements like "pop up slides are illegal," or "sliding over the base is illegal" without understanding that those are correct only in a specific context.

[Jocko]

I think we are basically in agreement. For years I have been preaching that umpires need to use judgement in most situations. Those with experience will know when a FPSR violation occurs.

Absolutely. I just want to be sure that newer umpires don't see statements like "pop up slides are illegal," or "sliding over the base is illegal" without understanding that those are correct only in a specific context.

Hope Jax is reading this!

[mstaylor]

Correct on the two corrections.

[BalkHawk]

INT on R1. R1 and BR are out. Force Play Slide Rule.

How is this FPSR? There is no slide in OP.

Taken from the latest Oregon SRI Bulletin:

Rule 8â€4â€2 reads: Any runner is out when he: B: does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or

illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not

slide in a direct line between the bases. A runner may slide away from the fielder to avoid contact or

alter the play of the fielder. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide

must be legal. The force play slide rule can be enforced at all bases, including the plate.

I have a FPSR violation.

That provision only refers to the execution and/or consequences of a slide. There was no slide, so this clause does not apply.

PAIOWWWW!

[jjskitours]

I maybe a little late to this party, but I would guess that we can all agree that the FPSR violation and subsequent automatic two out penalty MAY NOT only involve an illegal SLIDE. For me, the confusing interpretation comes from Case Book 8.4.2 Situation W, which was referenced in this thread, but didn't seem to receive any attention. Although it doesn't specifically state R1 went in standing up, I picture him stepping on the plate and crashing into F2 while in the upright position. He obviously altered the play of F2 and the ruling states ... since this is a force-play situation R1 and B4 are declared out and no one scores. I realize that in addition there was malicious contact on this play and an ejection, but the key is that Fed has noted a force-play situation without a slide occurring (in my opinion). If I'm missing something here, please let me know, but do not repeat anything already included throughout this thread. I would only want to know how this is not a FPSR situation as so described in the Ruling. The only possible explanation would be that R1 went in sliding when he made contact and that I'm off base in picturing R1 going in standing up.

[noumpere]

You can have a forceplay slide rule violation without a slide. the rule says that during a force play you must slide legally or run away from the play. In your example of going in standing up the runner didnt slide and since he made contact and altered the play thats the two out violation.

[jjskitours]

I tend to agree with you that you can have a FPSR violation without a slide. However, where in the rules does it say you must ............. or run away from the play.