Little League Adds U3K Rule for Majors

[grayhawk]

I'm the UIC of a local league and what you described, Kyle, is exactly the situation we have, and I feel blessed. We are all volunteer, and people tend to understand that you can't treat a volunteer poorly, because they will stop signing up. People do disagree, and make comments from time to time, but I think they realize that it's just a little league game and not important enough in the grand scheme of things to get too worked up about. To my knowledge, there have been no ejections in the last 2 years in any division (we only umpire for AA (7-9 year olds), AAA (9-11 year olds) and Majors (11-12 year olds)).

I have my concerns about a volunteer's ability to make the proper call and use the proper mechanic on a U3K, but everyone is out there doing their best. It WILL get screwed up, but we will just have to use those times as learning opportunities for all involved.

[cbiesecker]

I'm guessing that the relationship between umpire and coach will change greatly depending on the level of ball. For example, in a youth rec league, there will hopefully be a learning attitude like the one pointed out by grayhawk and kyle. But as the level of ball moves up into youth tournaments, JV, Legion, HS, college, etc, the interaction between umpires and coaches will become more business like and less informal. Don't get me wrong, I think an umpire needs to be professional at all times, but having a conversation with a coach after a game about why what his pitcher did was a balk, would best be left for the most junior levels of play.

[carolinablue]

Just curious, how does this new rule seem to be working out so far. I know a lot of LL has started now . We had opening day today but I did a pair of junior games.

[T-Rav]

Just curious, how does this new rule seem to be working out so far. I know a lot of LL has started now . We had opening day today but I did a pair of junior games.

I've done 3 LL major games and have only seen 1 D3K but my assigner for a large league I also work for want's the BU in the cutout as if we were on a 90 ft diamond "so we can see the D3K" better. Honestly I'm 6'1 and I think its way too tight for a BU to be in the cutout on a 60 foot field.

[Rich Ives]

Just curious, how does this new rule seem to be working out so far. I know a lot of LL has started now . We had opening day today but I did a pair of junior games.

I've done 3 LL major games and have only seen 1 D3K but my assigner for a large league I also work for want's the BU in the cutout as if we were on a 90 ft diamond "so we can see the D3K" better. Honestly I'm 6'1 and I think its way too tight for a BU to be in the cutout on a 60 foot field.

The cutout on a 90' diamond will have you 115' from the plate. "Outside" on a 60' diamond will have you 100' from the plate. If the cutout on a 90' field is close enough then outside on a 60' field is close enough.

[semper_fi_72]

I think the two things that confuses people about working LL 60' diamond is working B and C behind the infield.

That is the starting position to see if runners leave early.

Once the ball is hit and put in play you don't stay outside you get inside and work like any 90' diamond.

Gorund balls to the infield you get the best angle and distance you can and your still going to be about as close as you would on a 90' diamond.

Don't make working a 60' LL game more difficult than necessary.

I have a few "UNCAUGHT" 3K and there really hasn't been a problem.

It works the same as any other game now.

[johnnyg08]

So when the coach teaches his players to run no matter what, the other coach is hopefully smart enough to teach his F2 when he has to make a play at 1B or not. Because if F2 throws it when he doesn't have to and zings it into RF, you know there's going to be drama.

[semper_fi_72]

So when the coach teaches his players to run no matter what, the other coach is hopefully smart enough to teach his F2 when he has to make a play at 1B or not. Because if F2 throws it when he doesn't have to and zings it into RF, you know there's going to be drama.

Already seen a coach get burned on that.

R1 and R2, 1 out.

Swinging K3, Uncaught and right in front of F2.

Coach yells at batter to run which causes R1 and R2 to take off.

F2 picks up ball and throws to 3B where R2 is tagged for third out.

No one had to tell F2 where to throw the ball

One coach teaching baseball and the other one is lost trying to play a game of confusion because he doesn't want to teach real baseball which he really doesn't understand

[johnnyg08]

Nice when it works out that way.

[Rich Ives]

So when the coach teaches his players to run no matter what, the other coach is hopefully smart enough to teach his F2 when he has to make a play at 1B or not. Because if F2 throws it when he doesn't have to and zings it into RF, you know there's going to be drama.

Already seen a coach get burned on that.

R1 and R2, 1 out.

Swinging K3, Uncaught and right in front of F2.

Coach yells at batter to run which causes R1 and R2 to take off.

F2 picks up ball and throws to 3B where R2 is tagged for third out.

No one had to tell F2 where to throw the ball

One coach teaching baseball and the other one is lost trying to play a game of confusion because he doesn't want to teach real baseball which he really doesn't understand

I'd say you're right about not understanding but your conclusion is wrong. He needs to learn before he can teach, but he does want to teach. It's not like he's just writing it off.

[dumbdumb]

So when the coach teaches his players to run no matter what, the other coach is hopefully smart enough to teach his F2 when he has to make a play at 1B or not. Because if F2 throws it when he doesn't have to and zings it into RF, you know there's going to be drama.

Already seen a coach get burned on that.

R1 and R2, 1 out.

Swinging K3, Uncaught and right in front of F2.

Coach yells at batter to run which causes R1 and R2 to take off.

F2 picks up ball and throws to 3B where R2 is tagged for third out.

No one had to tell F2 where to throw the ball

One coach teaching baseball and the other one is lost trying to play a game of confusion because he doesn't want to teach real baseball which he really doesn't understand

I'd say you're right about not understanding but your conclusion is wrong. He needs to learn before he can teach, but he does want to teach. It's not like he's just writing it off.

Rich, I may be making this up (my apologies right up front if I am), but did you say LL usually (not always) goes by OBR interpretations except for special safety regulations?

Any idea why in the D3K they stayed with the old OBR definition that says the batter can run to first in a D3K situation up until he/she enters the dugout/steps or steps into DBT?

Since they are not implementing this rule until this year, did they not know OBR had changed this interpretation to "once the batter leaves the dirt circle"?

Only thing I have observed is the unsportsmanlike act by coaches now telling their players to run on everything to try and draw the throw. The coaches absolutely know the rule but are intentionally trying to draw the throw by "screaming", for their hitters to run and then giggling when it works. I would retract my words, if I had only seen them say this once a game, like they got caught up in the game and forgot, but when they say this every-time to try to draw the throw, you know it is intentional.

I believe you could use the rule of a coach trying to get a pitcher to commit a balk at the 50/70 level and warn him to shut it down, but at the 60 foot level, you might only have the option of just telling the coach to shut it down with the screaming to draw the throw.

Any chance of LL going with the dirt rule?

They need to be made aware of the problems that this is going to cause once the tournaments start. Many coaches know how to keep quiet and just before their player goes into the dugout, have them start running to first. It use to cause problems in OBR, which I will assume was the reason they changed it. Also they need to be aware of the intentional unsportsmanlike screaming to run that is going on. Not that they have to do anything, just be aware.

Also, the umpires are not watching the player go all the way to the dugout or DBT when the player just decide's to give up and not run, leaving the umpires open to that coach who is going to try and sneak his player to first which is totally legal and use to cause more trouble in OBR.

[Rich Ives]

They are aware of the dirt circle change. They posted on Facebook that they have no plans to change their "enter the dugout or DBT" version of the rule. One of the reasons cited was lack of uniformity of fields (including grass or the lack thereof).

They "always" had the rule in their older divisions (13+) so it's only new to majors and below. It's not new to the LL HQ staff and/or rules committee.

It is not unsportsmanlike to fake/deke and running to 1B is just another deke. The defense has the responsibility to know the rule and the conditions under which they have to throw - or not throw. Pretending to be catching a fly ball in the infield when the ball is heading to the gap - legal deke. If the guard fakes his defender out of his shoes, too bad. If the LB falls for the fake handoff, too bad. If the defense shows one defense and switches at the snap and gets an int - too bad. Same here.

[Jimurray]

So when the coach teaches his players to run no matter what, the other coach is hopefully smart enough to teach his F2 when he has to make a play at 1B or not. Because if F2 throws it when he doesn't have to and zings it into RF, you know there's going to be drama.

Already seen a coach get burned on that.

R1 and R2, 1 out.

Swinging K3, Uncaught and right in front of F2.

Coach yells at batter to run which causes R1 and R2 to take off.

F2 picks up ball and throws to 3B where R2 is tagged for third out.

No one had to tell F2 where to throw the ball

One coach teaching baseball and the other one is lost trying to play a game of confusion because he doesn't want to teach real baseball which he really doesn't understand

I'd say you're right about not understanding but your conclusion is wrong. He needs to learn before he can teach, but he does want to teach. It's not like he's just writing it off.

Rich, I may be making this up (my apologies right up front if I am), but did you say LL usually (not always) goes by OBR interpretations except for special safety regulations?

Any idea why in the D3K they stayed with the old OBR definition that says the batter can run to first in a D3K situation up until he/she enters the dugout/steps or steps into DBT?

Since they are not implementing this rule until this year, did they not know OBR had changed this interpretation to "once the batter leaves the dirt circle"?

Only thing I have observed is the unsportsmanlike act by coaches now telling their players to run on everything to try and draw the throw. The coaches absolutely know the rule but are intentionally trying to draw the throw by "screaming", for their hitters to run and then giggling when it works. I would retract my words, if I had only seen them say this once a game, like they got caught up in the game and forgot, but when they say this every-time to try to draw the throw, you know it is intentional.

I believe you could use the rule of a coach trying to get a pitcher to commit a balk at the 50/70 level and warn him to shut it down, but at the 60 foot level, you might only have the option of just telling the coach to shut it down with the screaming to draw the throw.

Any chance of LL going with the dirt rule?

They need to be made aware of the problems that this is going to cause once the tournaments start. Many coaches know how to keep quiet and just before their player goes into the dugout, have them start running to first. It use to cause problems in OBR, which I will assume was the reason they changed it. Also they need to be aware of the intentional unsportsmanlike screaming to run that is going on. Not that they have to do anything, just be aware.

Also, the umpires are not watching the player go all the way to the dugout or DBT when the player just decide's to give up and not run, leaving the umpires open to that coach who is going to try and sneak his player to first which is totally legal and use to cause more trouble in OBR.

I believe the pros changed it to the dirt circle to speed up the game. FED still has dugout also

[dumbdumb]

They are aware of the dirt circle change. They posted on Facebook that they have no plans to change their "enter the dugout or DBT" version of the rule. One of the reasons cited was lack of uniformity of fields (including grass or the lack thereof).

They "always" had the rule in their older divisions (13+) so it's only new to majors and below. It's not new to the LL HQ staff and/or rules committee.

It is not unsportsmanlike to fake/deke and running to 1B is just another deke. The defense has the responsibility to know the rule and the conditions under which they have to throw - or not throw. Pretending to be catching a fly ball in the infield when the ball is heading to the gap - legal deke. If the guard fakes his defender out of his shoes, too bad. If the LB falls for the fake handoff, too bad. If the defense shows one defense and switches at the snap and gets an int - too bad. Same here.

No problem with deke done on their own, but are coaches screaming at the TOP of their lungs to draw the throw so to speak allowed. How about coach screaming to draw a balk in the next league after Majors and how would that be handled in the new 50/70 division to draw a balk.

[Rich Ives]

They are aware of the dirt circle change. They posted on Facebook that they have no plans to change their "enter the dugout or DBT" version of the rule. One of the reasons cited was lack of uniformity of fields (including grass or the lack thereof).

They "always" had the rule in their older divisions (13+) so it's only new to majors and below. It's not new to the LL HQ staff and/or rules committee.

It is not unsportsmanlike to fake/deke and running to 1B is just another deke. The defense has the responsibility to know the rule and the conditions under which they have to throw - or not throw. Pretending to be catching a fly ball in the infield when the ball is heading to the gap - legal deke. If the guard fakes his defender out of his shoes, too bad. If the LB falls for the fake handoff, too bad. If the defense shows one defense and switches at the snap and gets an int - too bad. Same here.

No problem with deke done on their own, but are coaches screaming at the TOP of their lungs to draw the throw so to speak allowed. How about coach screaming to draw a balk in the next league after Majors and how would that be handled in the new 50/70 division to draw a balk.

You are not the assistant to the defense.

The defense has the responsibility to know the rule and the conditions under which they have to throw - or not throw.

As for the balk question - read 4.06(3). It's already there. Has been for decades.