Little League Adds U3K Rule for Majors

[grayhawk]

For the 2012 season, Little League has adopted the uncaught third strike rule for the Majors division. This rule will be in effect for the Little League international tournament. Local leagues will have the option of staying with the previous rule which is still in effect for minor divisions.

It will be interesting to see how this works out on 60 ft bases.

This new rule, and other rule changes here:

http://www.littleleague.org/Assets/forms_pubs/2012RuleChanges.pdf

[carolinablue]

Probably OK. for tournament play but I hope the local leagues I work pass on it for the regular season.

[mstaylor]

Why wouldn't they use it in the regular season? Isn't allstars a bad time to learn how to use a D3K?

[grayhawk]

My only concern is that your typical dad who volunteers a few times a season will be unprepared on how to call this. This is one of those plays (like IFF) that requires a little premiditation by the umpire to get it right. Is the typical volunteer dad going to think, before the pitch, that there is R1 with 1 out and that a U3K is an out requiring no further action? Or is it more likely that the batter starts running (because half the people in the stands are yelling "RUN!") which causes F2 to make an errant throw which allows R1 to score? I know, the players need to know the rules and F2 shouldn't make that throw anyway, but it will cause a crap storm anyway.

As the UIC of the local league, I will most certainly be training my majors umpires on how to deal with this situation, but it's going to get screwed up as often as not anyway.

[carolinablue]

Why wouldn't they use it in the regular season? Isn't allstars a bad time to learn how to use a D3K?

I'm just concerned that in reg. season you don't always get a good catcher and it could cause alot of games to get sloppy that would otherwise be pretty good games. Allstar level players should be able to adapt quickly if the rule is changed in the tournament and most of them probably already have experience with it through travel ball. It's your average LL only player that may struggle with it. Just my opinion of course, I will call it whichever way they want to. I don't work many small diamond games anymore anyway.

On second thought, it may be a good thing for umpires. It may force the coaches to get their better players off of shortstop and put them behind the plate.

[mstaylor]

Trust me, a D3K is not the only rule that gets screwed up by an out of the stands umpire. I think even LL only kids will catch on faster than their parents.

[Rich Ives]

It's going to be a circus.

[mstaylor]

No faith guys, kids are smarter than you think. Parents, hopeless.

[jjb]

We use the D3K (U-trip) for everything after U9. To be sure, we get a lot of runners that LL wouldn't have. But, on thr other hand, we have 10, 11 and 12-year old catchers that KNOW the rule, and we don't have to deal with runners going to first on every strikeout.

But, can you see LL using Instant Replay on close D3K's at the WS? Wonder how bad Harold will screw that up...

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't do LL at that age group but Ihave done Mustang. Some local leagues have the rule some dont. There is one that only allows it with 2 outs which is fine.

But I see this rule as extending the game un necessarily.

At this level I cringe every time there is a walk or single. because 1 or 2 pitches later the kid will be on third.

[Rich Ives]

No faith guys, kids are smarter than you think. Parents, hopeless.

It's not about understanding the rule - it's about being to execute the play.

It'll be a circus.

[ukce1861]

I don't do LL at that age group but Ihave done Mustang. Some local leagues have the rule some dont. There is one that only allows it with 2 outs which is fine.

But I see this rule as extending the game un necessarily.

At this level I cringe every time there is a walk or single. because 1 or 2 pitches later the kid will be on third.

So know, a walk and a strike-out are triples...

[sdix00]

LL should have adopted companion time limits and inning run limits to counteract the effects of this rule.

[carolinablue]

IMO, by adding it to tournament rules with no option it is forcing the local leagues to adopt the rule for regular season because if they don't their team will be unprepared come tournament time. So my guess is that, like it or not, it's coming to a LL near you this spring.

[Rich Ives]

IMO, by adding it to tournament rules with no option it is forcing the local leagues to adopt the rule for regular season because if they don't their team will be unprepared come tournament time. So my guess is that, like it or not, it's coming to a LL near you this spring.

Not really. CBO is optional in regular season but not used in the tournament. Coaches adapt. The kids will adapt.

[mstaylor]

I just don't think it will be that big a deal. There will be quite a few D3Ks but most will still result in outs.

[Umpire in Chief]

I just think it will be that big a deal. There will be quite a few D3Ks but most will still result in outs.

I admire your optimisim.

[jjb]

I'm with Carolina on this one, and I think the CBO is apples and oranges. It's handled by the coaches, not the players.

Picture this: in a regular season game, R3 with no D3K, the ball skips behind the catcher. He doesn't have to go get it, because they're not using the rule. Then, in a tournament, the ball skips by, and he reaches up to the umpire for a new ball. R3 scores and the catcher can't figure out why.

Coaches are notorious for teaching to the one game ahead of them, and not further down the road. For example, Junior LL doesn't teach leading off, because they don't have to. Regular season LL coaches won't teach the catcher their D3K rules, unless they're coaching the tournament team. Then, they'll teach it just before the tournament starts. Not much time to teach a whole new skill. So, I'm teaching it early, (the regular season).

What I will agree with you, Rich, is your assertion that the kids will adapt. So, why not teach them sooner?

[ukce1861]

Picture this: in a regular season game, R3 with no D3K, the ball skips behind the catcher. He doesn't have to go get it, because they're not using the rule. Then, in a tournament, the ball skips by, and he reaches up to the umpire for a new ball. R3 scores and the catcher can't figure out why.

I'm confused here... How does this have to do with D3K?

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I do think the leagues should implement it in the regular season, as opposed to it just being in All-Stars.

[Rich Ives]

Picture this: in a regular season game, R3 with no D3K, the ball skips behind the catcher. He doesn't have to go get it, because they're not using the rule. Then, in a tournament, the ball skips by, and he reaches up to the umpire for a new ball. R3 scores and the catcher can't figure out why.

The U3K rule has nothing to do with this scenario.

If as you say he reaches for a new ball there are less than two outs. Otherwise without the U3K rule he'd think the inning is over and would just start to leave the field.

So there are less than two outs.

If there's an R3 with less than two outs the catcher's going to chase the ball because there's an R3 who will attempt to score. U3K doesn't enter into it.

Too many umpires - not enough with significant coaching experience.

[Richvee]

I do a fair share of LL both regular season and tourney. In the tourney, as stated earlier, I've got a lot of catchers who play travel ball and when they trap a 3K or it trickles away they instinctively pick up the ball and tag the batter. I don't see it being a big issue there. However, local games? UHG! I think we just added one or two outs per inning....maybe more :unsure:

[carolinablue]

It's not the same as 90' bases IMO. It will be way more difficult to get the out on a U3K on 60' bases. The speed difference between a 12 and 13-14 YO is not that much in many cases. At least not enough that 30 less feet won't make a big difference. If I'm not mistaken, most travel leagues that use U3K for younger ages also have 70' bases. I don't think it will take the coaches more than a couple of innings to figure out that they are going to have to step up their game at the catcher position.

[Rich Ives]

How many WP's and PB's are on a valid U3K situation? If it's higher than 10% at your park(s) on the 60/70' fields I'd be really surprised. There's already plenty of incentive to get better catching. If it isn't happening now it won't happen because of the rule change.

[carolinablue]

How many WP's and PB's are on a valid U3K situation? If it's higher than 10% at your park(s) on the 60/70' fields I'd be really surprised. There's already plenty of incentive to get better catching. If it isn't happening now it won't happen because of the rule change.

I understand your point but disagree to some extent. As a past coach and umpire I understand the value of a good catcher but with no U3K rule and closed bases their value does drop a little. From what I see, at least at the leagues I umpire, is that in majors or below the coaches are willing to put a less talented player at catcher and deal with the passed balls. If they have a good pitcher on the mound, the base runners will be limited. They would rather have their better players in key positions like SS and CF than behind the plate. Rarely do you get a complete team in the regular season and they have to figure out how to fill in the holes. Now, due to this rule, I think all that will change, especialiy when all the players their son strikes out end up at 1B. As I said before, after rethinking it, it may end up being a good thing for that reason.

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't think it will take the coaches more than a couple of innings to figure out that they are going to have to step up their game at the catcher position.

Good point. I've long felt that because theye is no D3K coaches use the catcher like a right fielder. Where they put players with lesser ability ( I was both a catcher and RF hmmm )

Maybe they will put more focus on the catcher and we will get better players there who can actually make some plays or at least catch the ball.