"You can't steal on a walk.... it's a dead ball"

[KLAH316]

10U Fall Ball. First season in Kid Pitch for most players and coaches. 1st round of post-season tournament. I am BU.

It was a great night for coach explanations (all with the same coach).... With it being Fall Ball and I am on the BOD for the league, we give the coaches ALOT of leeway since this is all new to alot of them.

#1:

Coach: "If a batter tries to bunt and misses, are you going to call that a strike?"

Me: "Yes"

Coach: "Ok"

#2:

Coach: "The runner on 3rd just stole on a walk"

Me: "Yeah"

Coach: "You can't do that"

Me: "Yes you can"

Coach: "You can't steal on a walk. It's a dead ball"

Me: "No, a walk is still live"

Coach: "No it isn't" (Behind the fence behind him, is a parent shaking his head agreeing with the coach.)

Me: "This is real baseball coach. Trust me" (I turn and walk away)

#3:

Coach: "Blue, did the ball hit the runner on that play at first last inning?" (Bunt, catchers throw went wide and into right field and the batter went all the way around and scored"

Me: "No. Besides, this isn't the time to ask about it. You need to bring it up at the time, not between innings"

Coach: "It looked like it hit him"

Me: "No it didn't, I was right there."

Coach: "Well my first baseman said it did"

Me: "Well, he's 9 and I was watching it. We're done"

He walked away.

Like I said at the beginning, our league wants to give the coaches ALOT of leeway with it being Fall. In the Spring, I would have shut him down immediately.

Just one of those funny nights!

[mstaylor]

#1 Yes, if he attempts but holding the bat there is not an attempt.

#2 A walk is a live ball. Have you never seen a BR go around first and steal second on a walk?

#3 It did not hit him but what difference would it make if it had?

I would not shut him down in regular season unless it is the same questions game after game. U9s have inexperienced kids,coaches and parents. I will take the time to explain a situation, but I am not going to have a prolonged discussion. I will tell a coach we can have a longer discussion after the game but for now, here is the ruling. Now it is tougher with younger or newer guys that don't have my background in the rules. I DO NOT have local rule discussions. If a manager complains I haven't enforced some stupid made up rule I mean local rule, I ask if he has it in a written league issued form? No, have a nice day, it doesn't exist.

[KLAH316]

#1 Yes, if he attempts but holding the bat there is not an attempt.

#2 A walk is a live ball. Have you never seen a BR go around first and steal second on a walk?

#3 It did not hit him but what difference would it make if it had?

I would not shut him down in regular season unless it is the same questions game after game. U9s have inexperienced kids,coaches and parents. I will take the time to explain a situation, but I am not going to have a prolonged discussion. I will tell a coach we can have a longer discussion after the game but for now, here is the ruling. Now it is tougher with younger or newer guys that don't have my background in the rules. I DO NOT have local rule discussions. If a manager complains I haven't enforced some stupid made up rule I mean local rule, I ask if he has it in a written league issued form? No, have a nice day, it doesn't exist.

It almost got comical by the time #3 happened..... I wasn't even going to TRY to explain how even IF it hit him it wouldn't have mattered since the BR was running to first legally. Trust me, that discussion would have gone completely over is head!! :smachhead:

[Umpire in Chief]

I use to get a little kick out of coaches asking such things, when I was naive and thought I would be helping them by being accessable and answering their questions. That time has passed.

I really do want to be helpful. But so many coaches have bought in to the rules myths.

[ukce1861]

I use to get a little kick out of coaches asking such things, when I was naive and thought I would be helping them by being accessable and answering their questions. That time has passed.

I really do want to be helpful. But so many coaches have bought in to the rules myths.

Right there with you Warren. Got into a long discussion the other day with a coach about a runners baseline; it got me exactly nowhere...

[mstaylor]

I guess I have enough seniority that when questioned I will explain it, assure them that their "understanding" is incorrect. If they wish to continue I will shut it down and tell them their "understanding" is really a very common myth that they probably learned from their coach when they played. However we are playing by the real rule, let's play ball. I generally can answer very nicely the first time, matter of factly the second time and sternly the last time. By saying it sternly and using an open hand facing him at the same time makes the point.

[grayhawk]

Perhaps the best way to handle when a coach wants to have a discussion about a rule is to set expectations first:

"Coach, I am willing to have a discussion about this as long as you recognize, from the outset, than I am right. Any deviation from that path with end our discussion immediately." :yippie:

[spiritump_b]

umpires have to take a rules test--why do not make the coaches take and pass a rules test???

[kylejt]

I'm lucky enough to have a reputation around town. I'll just say "Ya gotta trust me on this", and that ends things. Every once and a while a noob will question me a bit, before one of his coaches steps in to turn him around.

[NWA_UMP]

We had a discussion in our association about stuff just like this. The question was asked..."why do we give rec ball coaches so much leeway and our HS coaches so little? One is a paid coach that has earned the right to coach at that level and the other is a volunteer and has earned nothing."

The general direction that we decided to follow was quite simple. Give the HS coach some room to discuss or even argue...he has earned it. The league guys can go home quickly when it becomes evident he has not invested even a cursory reading of the local rules let alone sanctioning body rules.

Never argue with an idiot... :no:

[HokieUmp]

We had a discussion in our association about stuff just like this. The question was asked..."why do we give rec ball coaches so much leeway and our HS coaches so little? One is a paid coach that has earned the right to coach at that level and the other is a volunteer and has earned nothing."

But your quote there could easily turn the argument the other way - I think the reason rec coaches get more leeway is not over the "earned" part of your quote, but the description of their coaching status. A HS coach is paid to be there - thus, he damn well better know his stuff. The volunteer coaches are there keeping a league alive, so they get cut a break.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know, when I get paid HS coaches question me about a ruling - and ones that should be obvious, given their level - I fight the urge to just say "Really, skip? You're really asking me that question?" I don't think I let it cloud the discussion, but I honestly sometimes get irritated because either 1) they're asking me a stupid question because THEY'RE stupid - which, as a paid guy, they should know the issue at hand, or 2) they're asking me a stupid question because they think I'M stupid, and are trying to get over.

[mstaylor]

1) they're asking me a stupid question because THEY'RE stupid - which, as a paid guy, they should know the issue at hand,

I still liked my assigner when he asked a coach where his rulebook was, after arguing with me and restarting it when we passed his bus. The coach said he didn't have one, my assigner said obviously.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

I love the parents on my kids teams that know I umpire, coach included, that ask me question during a game about a rule.....I give them the rule and how to apply it and they then tell me they don't think I'm right and want to argue their point based on myth. I finally told them stop asking.

Remember a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Richvee]

I love the parents on my kids teams that know I umpire, coach included, that ask me question during a game about a rule.....I give them the rule and how to apply it and they then tell me they don't think I'm right and want to argue their point based on myth. I finally told them stop asking.

Remember a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

...They ask, you tell them the rule, and then they utter that one line that really makes my blood boil..."Are you sure?" :BD:

[mstaylor]

I don't have a problem answering rules questions with fans. When they question the answer, usually by quoting a myth, I tell them,"No, that's a myth that many people believe. " Then I explain that you play 80% of the game with 20% of the rules so myths abound. I explain that they learned the myth for their coaches as kids, who learned it from their coaches as kids. They learn to trust my answers so the next time they ask, the less likely they are to second guess me.