What the hell did you expect???

[Umpire in Chief]

I usually try hard not to bring my work into U-E, but I've got to share this...

I have an employee who is from we will say is inarguably a 3rd world country. He requested and was granted an extended vacation to go visit his family. Through the process of approving his leave he told me while he was there he was going to have a proceedure done that I would bet maybe 50% of the members here have had done. Its relatively routine and insurance covers it. I had it done and I was back to normal the next day, for my wife it took a few days.

He said this proceedure would cost him over $3000 out of pocket to have done here in the US but while he was there he was going to have it done for less than $300. I told him at that time that I didn't believe the information he had was accurate I spoke with our benefits manager and confirmed that with his insurance this would have cost him less than what he would pay over there, but to each his own.

A week after he was to return back we get an email from him stating he had a complication and would be back in 2-3 weeks. We sent him his FMLA paperwork and all was fine. Well through a series of complications and infections he used his 12 wks FMLA and still was not able to return. Per our company policy we seperated him from employment and encouraged him re-apply for another position when he is able to return.

All of this because he wanted to get this proceedure in a third world country to what he believed would save him a few bucks...

[poppyfor3]

So that seems to open a JOB for an unemployed umpire. Way to go, Warren

[mstaylor]

Just confirms the quality of heath care we have over other countries. I'm sure he was not concerned because that is the norm for him. Proves the old saying,"Penny wise, pound foolish."

[yawetag]

Proves the old saying,"Penny wise, pound foolish."

A penny saved is a penny toward legal fees.

[zm1283]

Just confirms the quality of heath care we have over other countries. I'm sure he was not concerned because that is the norm for him. Proves the old saying,"Penny wise, pound foolish."

If you're able to afford it or have good insurance, then yes, the quality of the care is good. Being able to afford it in the first place is the problem.

[mstaylor]

In this case the guy did have insurance and it was suggested he use it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Just confirms the quality of heath care we have over other countries. I'm sure he was not concerned because that is the norm for him. Proves the old saying,"Penny wise, pound foolish."

In this case the guy did have insurance and it was suggested he use it.

You sound very much like a man with the blessing of good insurance, who cares not to know or admit how it really is.

Health care is one of America's greatest frauds. Opposition to health care reform is one of America's greatest embarrassments.

[mstaylor]

I do have insurance, my son does not. My wife has been in health care for years, although she isn't now. I agree there is need for reform in health care, handing it over to the gov't isn't reform, that's suicide. I have several friends that work in Canada's system and they all say stay as far away from it as possible. What needs to stop is everyone suing each other over nothing.

Just because there are areas in our system that is screed up doesn't mean e don't have the best heath care in the world. My wife worked for a group of Drs that work the first five months of the year to pay their malpractice insurance. That doesn't include any staff, office rent, office costs, or personal pay.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I am well aware of the reasons why things are the way they are.

We most decidedly do not have the best health care in the world, but if you need to believe that, then you had better go ahead and believe that. Have a nice day.

[mstaylor]

There are places that have good medical systems, world renowned doctors and phenominal drugs but I can't think of a single place that has a medical system than ours. I am always open for enlightenment, and I can be convinced that I am incorrect. I readily agree there are many warts attached to our system, some of our own making. I'm not saying there shouldn't be some regulation of the insurance companies and pharmacutical companies, I mearly do not believe handing it to the gov't to run is the answer.

We have a section on our editorial page in our local paper that is called the Grapevine. It is a section where you don't sign your name to your comment. This was a topic of discussion the other day and someone that was supporting gov't health care asked what was the difference between that and Medicaid and Medicare that the Gov't already runs. My answer to that is nothing, which is why I oppose it. They have absolutely screwed those two programs up and they will do the same with health care. Regulate to a point but leave it in the private sector. I also freely admit I hold an unpopular view to many and I am OK with that.

Edited to add:

I do appreciate having a reasoned discussion about this though. I like be able to argue different views without name calling and needless anger. It is a shame it doesn't happen more.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Purely and simply, our unconscionable greed is the fundamental reason that there are dozens of countries whose health care and systems of delivering it are superior to ours.

Whether it was the pharmaceutical industry, the insurance industry or the health care industry itself that was the first to lose its soul, you can decide for yourself.

This is one area where simply insisting that we're No. 1 doesn't travel very far. This is a new world and a new millennium.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Cute story:

There's a little old lady up north who still gets to go to church every day and spread cheer to her sons and grandsons and all her neighbors, and she still gets to listen to music and watch old movies and smell her flowers as she walks outside.

But, according to the way things are done in this country, her life should be over. She's not wealthy enough or important enough to keep around, so she got priced out. But she's not dead yet for one reason: That's because the otherwise unaffordable medications she requires are sent to her by a friendly roadside Mexican pharmacist at anywhere from one eighth to one twentieth the cost of their identical American versions. The same drugs in the same boxes bearing the names of the same giant pharmaceutical companies as we have right here. The difference is that Americans are unconscionably greedy, and their versions are priced to kill. Oh, the other difference is the boxes and bottles have Spanish labels.

That wonderful soul would have been dead five years ago or more if she were not able to buy her medications for hundreds per month rather than thousands. She only had one house to sell.

Big business before any common person's life; that is what makes us fall somewhere dozens of spots down the list of countries with the best health care.

[mstaylor]

Or we could go to the Canadian system and go on a waiting list for 6 months to three years depending on the surgury. I have a friend that works in the Canadian system that brought his nephew south to our evil system when he had testicular cancer at 16. It wasn't the cost or even a wait, it was quality of care. He felt the doctors and hospitals are simply superior to what they have in Canada.

I agree there is greed in the system but there is also the need to be able to fight stupid lawsuits. Do you remember how much money was awarded for all the damaged women that had silicone breast implants. They supposedly were the scourge of the earth and it was proven in court how much damage they had done. Then after all this money was court ordered it was figured out that the science was completely bogus. I see ads every day for lawyers willing to take class action suits for all kinds of BS things. That's the biggest greed part in the system. Being my wife sent many years in the medical field, I think I have some experience in the discussion.

[dumbdumb]

Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be cowbo----umpires.

Let em grow up to be DOCTORS and LAWYERS and such.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Ours is an irresponsible nation. It's very sad that this age-old We're No. 1 sensibility seems to wipe away a lot of reality.

I know you have a wealth of experience, so do I. And the health care system is indefensible, and far from the best in the world. It is among our greatest failures.

[mstaylor]

That's why we have different political parties, types of umpiring gear, types of cars and down the line. We don't agree, that is fine, it is what makes our country a pretty good place to live, warts and all. We can disagree and then go have a beer. :cheers:

[Kevin Finnerty]

Now on that, we can agree.

[zm1283]

Tort reform is a joke. Malpractice suits are a drop in the bucket, and you can limit them all you want but it isn't going to drive down the cost of health care in this country.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

Probably not a topic for this board at all. I would also offer some advice about sharing even in an anomous fashion, the information shared could cause a significant legal loss both corporately and personally. Not trying to be rude, but think before you post and the downstream ramifications. Remember there is no anonymity in cyber space.

[mstaylor]

Tort reform is a joke. Malpractice suits are a drop in the bucket, and you can limit them all you want but it isn't going to drive down the cost of health care in this country.

Not true at all. Because the cost to defend a malpractice suit is so high, many times completely bogus cases get settled to make it go away. Believe me, drs spend stupid money every year on insurance against malpractice, then if a case is brought, the cost skyrocket. As I was typing this there was a commercial for an abulance chaser law firm about some medicine or other.

[AZump78]

Ours is an irresponsible nation. It's very sad that this age-old We're No. 1 sensibility seems to wipe away a lot of reality.

I know you have a wealth of experience, so do I. And the health care system is indefensible, and far from the best in the world. It is among our greatest failures.

The last thing I want to do is get in a political argument on here, but I have to ask: what country's health care system would you suggest we look to as a an improvement over our system Fin?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Probably not a topic for this board at all. I would also offer some advice about sharing even in an anomous fashion, the information shared could cause a significant legal loss both corporately and personally. Not trying to be rude, but think before you post and the downstream ramifications. Remember there is no anonymity in cyber space.

I would say that the big, old U S of A has a whole hell of a lot more to do than to try to find which little old lady is staying alive because of which Mexican pharmacist. That is what you're referring to, is it not?

Just so you know, cheaper meds by mail is a colossal industry. This private, little arrangement is as trivial as it gets.

And I appreciate your concern, but I don't fear much of anything.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Ours is an irresponsible nation. It's very sad that this age-old We're No. 1 sensibility seems to wipe away a lot of reality.

I know you have a wealth of experience, so do I. And the health care system is indefensible, and far from the best in the world. It is among our greatest failures.

The last thing I want to do is get in a political argument on here, but I have to ask: what country's health care system would you suggest we look to as a an improvement over our system Fin?

There's really no argument. It's inarguable.

Simply consult any reputable source of such information and you'll find that the United States rates below dozens of countries in both the system of health care and the way it is delivered.

I only have real-life experience to impart, some horrific stories peppered with some positive stories. But I recommend that you read some independent studies on the subject.

[scrounge]

It absolutely does not, and no amount of debate-squelching, emotion-laden statements about how it's "indefensible" makes it so. It is absolute sophistry to label the best health-care system (note: not the best health-care PAYMENT system) in the world, the one the entire world free-rides on, as a great failure. These abjectly wrong statements, without any rationale or argument, are ridiculous. Many use misleading statistics like life expectancy, etc., in a very simplistic way, without controlling for demographics, accidents, crime/violence, etc. What possible comment on the health care system is made by having life expectancy reduced by violent crime?

But when you look at things that ARE directly related to the health care system - things like cancer survival rates, etc - the US is at the top. The entire world free-rides on the success and discoveries of the US - be it in medical instruments, pharmaceuticals, etc. When the US market can profitably develop new drugs, other countries get to free-ride. For example, of course Australia and Canada can have strict price controls - once the drug is developed and the enormous R&D cost is sunk for the much vaster US market, the incremental cost of manufacturing an already-discovered drug is minimal, so the drug company might as well put up with the ancillary countries' controls and sell at lower cost. But if that original incentive of a large, less-regulated market wasn't there, the thing would never have been developed in the first place. THAT is why drug reimportation as a cost-savings strategy is a shallow and self-defeating mechanism, along with some valid safety issues.

No, the great tragedy is that we are in the process of introducing even MORE government distortion and harm to the best system in the world. Perhaps you will feel better or more 'compassionate' in that, but millions upon millions will suffer and the last, best hope for the world will be diminished. That is a great tragedy, and it's getting worse.

Ours is an irresponsible nation. It's very sad that this age-old We're No. 1 sensibility seems to wipe away a lot of reality.

I know you have a wealth of experience, so do I. And the health care system is indefensible, and far from the best in the world. It is among our greatest failures.

The last thing I want to do is get in a political argument on here, but I have to ask: what country's health care system would you suggest we look to as a an improvement over our system Fin?

There's really no argument. It's inarguable.

Simply consult any reputable source of such information and you'll find that the United States rates below dozens of countries in both the system of health care and the way it is delivered.

I only have real-life experience to impart, some horrific stories peppered with some positive stories. But I recommend that you read some independent studies on the subject.

[mstaylor]

All I know, and this is coming from experience in the medical industry, we do pretty damn well. There are problems but overall we are above most countries in what we do in health care. I have said this before, Drs in the Canadian system have told me that it is a horrible system. Other countries that have "free" national health care are so heavily taxed that the systems are starting to collapse. The cost of drugs in this country are more expensive because the amount of testing is years longer and companies are quicker to be sued than in Europe.

I firmly believe if there is a ligit malpractice or a bad drug, then law suits are in order. Many cases are neither and recieve huge awards. The idea of the gov't being the end all of all things and the sense of overall entitlement has to stop.