LL - Infield Fly - how high?

[TC3]

New ump. Would appreciate clarification on this...

Neither an attempted bunt nor a line drive can be an infield fly.

How do you differentiate between bloopers and genuine fly balls for this call?

Thanks.

[BrianC14]

New ump. Would appreciate clarification on this...

Neither an attempted bunt nor a line drive can be an infield fly.

How do you differentiate between bloopers and genuine fly balls for this call?

Thanks.

Exactly 16 feet or higher for Little League games.

[BrianC14]

All right - I'm kidding, of course.

There are no height declarations on an infield fly. What you look for is if a fielder can make the play with ordinary effort. If he 's having to run to the spot, then it wouldn't qualify as in infield fly.

Another thing: DON'T look up at the ball. Read the fielder(s) - they will take you to the play. When you see them camped under it, (and be sure of this, especially on a windy day) then you can point up and make the call, "Infield fly, batter's out."

It's easier than it sounds.

[maninblack69]

It has to be a routine catch for an infielder to have an infield fly. Also R1 and R2 with less than 2 outs. That's why a bunt or a line drive don't qualify. There isn't necessarily a certain height the ball has to go. I've been out of the game for a while, so maybe some others have some input on this subject as well.

[Umpire in Chief]

It's all umpire judgement.

I will second what Brian said about not picking up the ball, but watch the fielders.

[TC3]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm still seeking a firmer basis for judgment.

A line drive is sharp and direct.

A towering 40' fly ball is obviously a fly ball.

8' is the height of your ceiling at home. A soft blooper that has a peak elevation of 8' is not a line drive. Is it a fly ball?

If the infield-fly conditions were present and the 8' blooper were hit directly to an infielder, would you call Infield Fly?

If not, it has to be because a blooper isn't a fly ball. Hence my question: Approximately where is the cutoff that distinguishes between blooper and fly ball?

I know this isn't in the rule book. For LL Majors, where are you experienced guys drawing a line between low blooper and fly ball?

Thanks.

[PeteBooth]

I know this isn't in the rule book. For LL Majors, where are you experienced guys drawing a line between low blooper and fly ball?

Thanks

.

Make your life simple.

Why does the IFR exist in the first place?

Answer - so the defense cannot get a "cheap" DP.

Do not worry so much about the height of the ball. We all know what a line drive or bunt is. Therefore, for the most part unless the ball meets those criteria we have for all practical purposes a fly ball.

Now in LL majors the ball IMO has to be a "can of corn" meaning if you do not call the IF the defense will get an easy DP.

In a nutshell remember why the IFR exists and that should answer most of your questions.

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm still seeking a firmer basis for judgment.

A line drive is sharp and direct.

A towering 40' fly ball is obviously a fly ball.

8' is the height of your ceiling at home. A soft blooper that has a peak elevation of 8' is not a line drive. Is it a fly ball?

If the infield-fly conditions were present and the 8' blooper were hit directly to an infielder, would you call Infield Fly?

If not, it has to be because a blooper isn't a fly ball. Hence my question: Approximately where is the cutoff that distinguishes between blooper and fly ball?

I know this isn't in the rule book. For LL Majors, where are you experienced guys drawing a line between low blooper and fly ball?

Thanks.

Picture what "ordinary effort" looks like. That is, after all, the defining criteria for the infield fly ball.

Do you really suppose that a fielder could get a ball hit just 8 feet up using ordinary effort? (Right, me either....)

Like Pete says, stop worrying about the height of the ball. Read the fielders. Are they camped under it? If so, call it. If not, don't.

[mstaylor]

As others have said, there is no height requirement but maybe this will help on the humpbacks. If the fielder was 8ft either side of that blooper could he have caught it with ordinary effort? If not, then it is just a catch/no catch. I quess the better way to describe it is if it wasn't right at him could he have moved to catch it.

Good luck this year and keep asking questions.

[Stan W.]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm still seeking a firmer basis for judgment.

Hence my question: Approximately where is the cutoff that distinguishes between blooper and fly ball?

I know this isn't in the rule book. where are you experienced guys drawing a line between low blooper and fly ball?

Thanks.

A Supreme Court justice was asked "what is pornography?".....He replied I may not know how to define it but I know it when I see it.....

Its about the same in the Infield fly determination game......You dont have any points of reference on a ball field to determine 8' or 10'....you have to determine it by experience and reason......

the advice given above about reading the fielder is a good start....if you must have a point of reference, as a base umpire judge it off of the highest part of the backstop...

[JaxRolo]

It has to be a routine catch for an infielder to have an infield fly. Also R1 and R2 with less than 2 outs. That's why a bunt or a line drive don't qualify. There isn't necessarily a certain height the ball has to go. I've been out of the game for a while, so maybe some others have some input on this subject as well.

Dont forget R1, R2 and R3

[TC3]

Thanks again for the replies. Lot's of good advice, and I'm grateful for it.

Last year was my 1st year. Under conditions for infield fly...

I saw a 25'-30' straight-up fly ball that landed equidistant from F1, F2, F3, pretty close to the foul line. I didn't call infield fly because it wasn't catchable with ordinary effort by any of those fielders. That one is still debated around here.

Twice I saw bloopers that were 8' to 12' high at peak elevation, lots of backspin, hit directly out to F4 or F6. One I called Infield Fly. The other I didn't.

I don't know how to call the next one.

I've umpired for 1 year, and seen that blooper shot twice already. It's not a line drive. It's a blooper, hit directly to a fielder.

I'm grateful for the feedback, and I completely understand the comments and suggestions from each reply already posted.

But my question stands.

Are you guys calling that blooper an Infield Fly or not?

[DirtyDawg]

With the blooper you just need to figure out if it's going to be an easy catch. If a blooper is hit right at someone, and they then go ahead and let it drop in order to turn a double play when they could have caught it, you probably should have called an infield fly. Also, on those flies close to the line, remember to call it out fair or foul, and also tag on the end, "if fair." That way your buttox is covered if the ball goes foul.

[Big Red]

Last year was my 1st year. Under conditions for infield fly...

I saw a 25'-30' straight-up fly ball that landed equidistant from F1, F2, F3, pretty close to the foul line. I didn't call infield fly because it wasn't catchable with ordinary effort by any of those fielders. That one is still debated around here.

Twice I saw bloopers that were 8' to 12' high at peak elevation, lots of backspin, hit directly out to F4 or F6. One I called Infield Fly. The other I didn't.

I don't know how to call the next one.

But my question stands.

Are you guys calling that blooper an Infield Fly or not?

TC,

Hate to sound harsh, but as the old addage goes, "Sometimes you have to just umpire!" There are some unknown factors here, such as age/positioning of players, size of field, etc, but the bottom-line is these are completely "had to be there" situations...we simply cannot provide an answer to that question. And even if a bunch of us were there, I'm sure you would get varying opinions.

As several others have stated in various expressions, break it down to two things:

First and foremost, the reason for IFR:

Make your life simple.

Why does the IFR exist in the first place?

Answer - so the defense cannot get a "cheap" DP.

In a nutshell remember why the IFR exists and that should answer most of your questions.

Second, understand "ordinary effort"...

Picture what "ordinary effort" looks like. That is, after all, the defining criteria for the infield fly ball.

Like Pete says, stop worrying about the height of the ball. Read the fielders. Are they camped under it? If so, call it. If not, don't.

I know this is as concrete as water, but it is situational where you have to consider the age & skill level of the players.

For example, when I call Pinto games, baseball and softball (7-8 yr, coach pitch), I hardly ever call IFR, regardless of height or where it goes because, as anyone that's ever worked these games knows darn good and well, NOTHING is ordinary effort w/ those kids, bless their hearts!

But, as you work the older ages/more skill, it changes. And this is simply one of those things that gets easier w/ experience. You seemed to hit the head on the nail when you judged that F1, F2 & F3 could not get to the 25-30 footer w/ "ordinary effort"...that's your judgement; good on ya and 'em if they still wanna debate it...you have to ignore it, forget it and move on, or you will compound further mistakes w/ your own self-doubt.

As others have said, forget the 8' (or whatever foot) stuff for determining the kind of hit as it also depends on how far the ball is hit. An 8' high to F1...yeah, a blooper. An 8' high hit to F4 or F6 playing deep w/ 90' base paths or to an outfielder...line drive!!!

Based on the input you provided regarding calling it the one time and not the other, I would just say be consistent, make the call and be confident in selling it! And remember....

It's all umpire judgement.

I know you're not getting the answer you want, but don't get frustrated as you ARE getting good guidance in how to formulate your judgement/call.

Welcome to the site and good luck! :cheers:

[mstaylor]

Humpbacks generally are not IFs even if hit right at them. This is why I said to take the same hit and see if he can catch it if he has to move to get it.

[IHSAUmp08]

The way I was always taugh is that it can only be an infield fly if the fielder can make the catch with ordinary effort. It can be any fielder, even an outfielder running in. Try to make the call when the ball has peaked or is on the way down. If the fielder is sprinting to get to the ball, it's probably not an infield fly. If it's windy and the ball is blowing everywhere, it better be very obvious.

[yawetag]

It can be any fielder, even an outfielder running in.

Yes and no. The ball still has to be able to be caught with ordinary effort by an infielder. However, if F4 is camped under the ball but is called off by F9, IFF is still in effect.

[mstaylor]

I've made that call. :D

[maninblack69]

Dont forget R1, R2 and R3

Thanks for adding that. I was just thinking of minimum requirements for IFF.

[noumpere]

If the infield fly rule did not exist, then for the defense to turn a double play, two things would have to happen. First, the infielder would have to pretend he was making a catch. This would keep the runners at the base. Second, the ball would have to bounce in front of the fielder and then bounce (more or less) straight up. This would allow the fielder to glove the ball and turn the double play.

I'm going to suggest that those conditions can be used to help judge the height of a ball needed to invoke the rule. If it's a hump-backed liner, then either the fielder can't fake the catch or the ball will bounce by him. So, it's not an infield fly.

That said, the purpose of the rule is to protect the offense. So, the benefit of the doubt goes to calling the infield fly. Take the one out and go on to the next batter (assuming the play i sporperly made by both the offense and defense).

[TC3]

Thanks again to all. Lots of good info here.

As many have said here - IFF is a judgment call. LL rules state "fly" and "ordinary effort".

LL rules define "fly" as a batted ball that goes "high" in the air in flight.

So in the right conditions, if it's adjudged "high" and can be caught with "ordinary" effort, it's an IFF.

I'm particularlry grateful for the multiple suggestions to consider the batted ball in the context of the protection offered by the rule. If the fly ball is such that the infielder would be able to easily turn the DP if they wanted to, it must be an IFF.

Regarding the blooper shot, for me personally, noumpere's suggestion is perfect.

Again - thanks to all.

[Umpire in Chief]

Glad we can help

[Mr Umpire]

Thanks for adding that. I was just thinking of minimum requirements for IFF.

The basic requirement for IFR is this: Any time there is a force at 3B and less than 2 outs, IFR is in effect.

Simplest way to explain it to someone.

[catoblue]

The basic requirement for IFR is this: Any time there is a force at 3B and less than 2 outs, IFR is in effect.

Simplest way to explain it to someone.

I LIKE that description - much easier to remember and keep straight than 1 & 2 or 1 & 2 & 3 (or was it 2 & 3 or bases loaded, or was it 1&2/2&3?)

Force at 3b, less than 2 out - perfect!

[JaxRolo]

The basic requirement for IFR is this: Any time there is a force at 3B and less than 2 outs, IFR is in effect.

Simplest way to explain it to someone.

Never heard it explained that way. I like it. :(