Catch and Tag

[moblue]

When you call a game (2 man) which umpire takes the catch and which takes the tag of runners? For some reason I'm hearing that the more experienced guys in our association are doing PU taking catch, BU taking the tag of the runners. This seems opposite to me. The BU should be able to go out and signal catch/no catch and the PU should watch the tags since he has the best vantage point. Which way is right?

[BrianC14]

When you call a game (2 man) which umpire takes the catch and which takes the tag of runners? For some reason I'm hearing that the more experienced guys in our association are doing PU taking catch, BU taking the tag of the runners. This seems opposite to me. The BU should be able to go out and signal catch/no catch and the PU should watch the tags since he has the best vantage point. Which way is right?

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice:

Do not - I repeat - DO NOT take the advice on mechanics from this or any other forum.

Reason: Many people handle mechanics differently from one area to another.

I'm sure that the answers you're sure to get on this forum will be well-intentioned. But they may also be 100% wrong based on the way people in your area work games.

I recommend you obtain one of these ASAP:

Can be purchased here:

http://www.ump-attire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CCABS&Category_Code=UMPIRE-RULEBOOKS&Product_Count=3

And then get with your association members and work out the questions. THOSE (and the book) will provide the best answers.

All of the answers you seek are in that book.

(And please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use the FED mechanics book). :rollinglaugh:

[Paperipper17]

(And please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use the FED mechanics book).

A-freaking-men.

[yawetag]

Brian's right. Talk to your organization and your partners. What's taught in one area is taught differently in another, even league to league.

Case in point: Brian pointed you to the CCA manual. My organization uses the "Red Book," which is from the PBUA. We use it for all leagues that we are contracted for, simply for consistency.

With that said, your original question depends on a lot of things, primarily where the BU is and where the ball is hit. In a nutshell, if BU is in A, he only calls trouble balls in right field; PU gets everything else. If BU is in B or C, he calls everything in the "V" from left fielder to right fielder -- anything that draws an outfielder to a foul line is PU.

Again, that's basic, and depends on your partner. The best thing is to communicate, both pre-game and during the game. When a fly ball is hit and it's your call, yell to your partner "I've got the ball!" This will remind him that his focus is on the runners.

[Umpire in Chief]

Our association uses FED mechanics...

I personally disagree with it because we have stated time and again we are in the business of creating the best college umpires. While it's not completely reinventing the wheel, I can say from going to camps/clinics outside of my association it feels awkward being in "B" per CCA when I'd normally be in "C" with fed and takes a slight bit of adjustment.

Having to adjust slightly means I'm having to think when I'm on the field (insert smart remark here) Where I've worked hard to make my movements on the field become instinctual and this alters that a bit.

[JaxRolo]

Having to adjust slightly means I'm having to think when I'm on the field (Did it Hurt?) Where I've worked hard to make my movements on the field become instinctual and this alters that a bit.

Sorry had to do it :wow:

[moblue]

Here's the problem I have with PU taking the catch: Out of the two games I've done this, I've heard my partner yell "catch" once. I end up looking for a catch anyway because of this, and look at my runners as soon as I can see if it was caught or not. I feel like a moron most of the time because I'm used to running out for fly balls. The absolute worst situation that came from this was in the first game I used this mechanic. A ball went deep, and the outfield fence was green portable fencing (sort of like the more common orange stuff). It hit once, bounced up above the level of the fence, hit again and rolled away. It ended up out of play. Was it a HR or a GRD? It's hard to say. PU called HR, and I thought it was a GRD but said nothing. I wasn't in a good position to call it either. Neither one of the players did the typical "throw the hands up" signal for a ball going out of play. When we talked later I told him I thought it was a GRD, and he was questioning his call of HR. The game wasn't even close so no problems there at least.

It just makes more sense to me for PU to take tag and BU to take catch. That is what the best position to call is. Had I been taking catch/no catch, I would have been in the outfield to rule on the base awards for the ball.

[DirtyDawg]

Mo, as a Missouri umpire I can tell you that in the two regions I've worked (Rolla Area and Poplar Bluff area) the plate umpire takes the call. This is something that in most cases I discuss with my partner in pre-game. The reason being that if the base umpire goes out to make the call, he/she is supposed to stay in the outfield until all plays are over, thus making the play revert to a 1 umpire system, which most do not like. This is done for only routine outs, though. During the pre-game I speak with my partner and let him know (if I am in the field) that if I go out he/she's got the bases and should watch for all 3 tag-ups (and then be prepared to revert to a 1 man system as I am staying in the outfield as stated before).

[kwiggie]

Our association uses FED mechanics...

I can say from going to camps/clinics outside of my association it feels awkward being in "B" per CCA when I'd normally be in "C" with fed and takes a slight bit of adjustment. .

What is the "B""C" situation you are refering too?

We pretty much only use the fed mechs here for HS. I have not purchasedread a CCA or any other mech book yet beyond the fed issued one (sounds like I should). For that matter has anyone picked up the "Virtual Umpire Camp CD" that is availible, if so is it worth the $$$? Is it tied to the CCA manual, or kind of random?

[yawetag]

It just makes more sense to me for PU to take tag and BU to take catch. That is what the best position to call is. Had I been taking catch/no catch, I would have been in the outfield to rule on the base awards for the ball.

First of all, the BU should NEVER cross the paths between bases. NEVER.

Secondly, if you're talking about a situation where the BU is in B or C, they have any calls from F7 to F9; PU has anything that draws them to the lines. If your situation of the possible bounce occurred anywhere that took them to the line, it's best the PU take the call. If they're busting butt, they should be a good distance up either line to make the call.

[LMSANS]

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice:

Do not - I repeat - DO NOT take the advice on mechanics from this or any other forum.

Reason: Many people handle mechanics differently from one area to another.

I'm sure that the answers you're sure to get on this forum will be well-intentioned. But they may also be 100% wrong based on the way people in your area work games.

I recommend you obtain one of these ASAP:

Can be purchased here:

http://www.ump-attire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CCABS&Category_Code=UMPIRE-RULEBOOKS&Product_Count=3

And then get with your association members and work out the questions. THOSE (and the book) will provide the best answers.

All of the answers you seek are in that book.

(And please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use the FED mechanics book).

Do not - I repeat - DO NOT take the advice on mechanics from this poster, if you do fed in NJ. NJ only uses FED mechanics for FED games. That is almost a direct quote from the state mechanics guy, who is in my association.

[BrianC14]

Do not - I repeat - DO NOT take the advice on mechanics from this poster, if you do fed in NJ. NJ only uses FED mechanics for FED games. That is almost a direct quote from the state mechanics guy, who is in my association.

See what I mean about taking mechanics advice on an umpire forum?

If Larry worked in my area, we'd have to to a cranio-rectonomy before we ever let him near a baseball field!

I guess the best advice Larry is providing here is.... don't work baseball in Joisey!

J/K there, Larry.

[BrianC14]

Mo, as a Missouri umpire I can tell you that in the two regions I've worked (Rolla Area and Poplar Bluff area) the plate umpire takes the call. This is something that in most cases I discuss with my partner in pre-game. The reason being that if the base umpire goes out to make the call, he/she is supposed to stay in the outfield until all plays are over, thus making the play revert to a 1 umpire system, which most do not like. This is done for only routine outs, though. During the pre-game I speak with my partner and let him know (if I am in the field) that if I go out he/she's got the bases and should watch for all 3 tag-ups (and then be prepared to revert to a 1 man system as I am staying in the outfield as stated before).

Well, no.

In 2-man mechanics, the ONLY time you will go out as the base umpire is if you are in "A" (first base). When you do go out, you have to return in the event that the batter has hit for extra bases ... your job will be to make your call(s) and then return in foul territory to home plate in case a play develops there. And yes, it has happened. Pretty rare, but I have personally seen it. (I'd have had the B/R out at home if the throw had been any good.)

And by the way, if you DO go out as BU, don't go out on a routine play... go out on the trouble balls.

Again, get the CCA manual - it's all explained there.

"Shred the FED" book. I don't care what Larry says. :crybaby2:

[yawetag]

First of all, the BU should NEVER cross the paths between bases. NEVER.

Except when coming in from A. Other than that, NEVER.

[LMSANS]

:WTF If you "shred the FED book", as Brian recommends, you can't use it.

I keep mine in the car.

And my dashboard deosn't rattle during baseball season! :stir

[noumpere]

What is the "B""C" situation you are refering too?

We pretty much only use the fed mechs here for HS. I have not purchasedread a CCA or any other mech book yet beyond the fed issued one (sounds like I should). For that matter has anyone picked up the "Virtual Umpire Camp CD" that is availible, if so is it worth the $$$? Is it tied to the CCA manual, or kind of random?

CCA is the college mechanics.

FED is the "standard" HS mechanics, but they are often modified in various states / localities.

The Red Book is the pro mechanics.

All have slight differences. Any work as long as both (all) umpires are working from the same book. What you don't want is one umpire working CCA and one working FED and have no umpire at third base, for example.

[Rick48]

Kwiggie, The Virtual Umpire Camp CD is a good one, but based on pro mechanics (it's from JEAPU, after all!). Not much issue for college ball, but Fed is quite different. Good CD for basics, though, even if you use Fed mechanics (poor you!).

[mstaylor]

Evidently UIC's group uses Fed mechanics also. Our group uses CCA mechanics, enough of our guys are college guys that it makes better sense to not confuse the issue.