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Bellino's Positioning on Tag Plays

sdix00

By sdix00
in Umpire Mechanics

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sdix00

sdix00

Posted
Posted

Here are three tag play calls by Dan Bellino. Notice how he seems to be right on top of the play.

Would you consider this to be too close, exactly the correct position, or simply an advanced mechanic by an expert umpire?

Would you recommend attempting this? Thoughts?

6097077852_8d80acff7b_o.jpg

8/29/10

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11504867

6097077884_1f8dca24bf_o.jpg

8/29/11

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...ent_id=18585901

6097077914_3e6936d1d1_o.jpg

8/28/11

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...ent_id=18557849

For a point of reference, Compare with Jerry Lane. No reason in particular for picking Lane - this is just the first clip with a similar play to the Bellino clip from 8/29/11 (PO 2-3).

6096576537_14eff2f1f3_o.jpg

8/27/11

http://mlb.mlb.com/v...ent_id=18503383

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johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

You put some time into these photos...nicely done. He is certainly consistent in his proximity to close tag plays which tells me that what he's doing is intentional. That's all I know at this point.

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

I think he is doing it intentional to help prevent anything from obstructing his view. Also, I have noticed more have been doing similar things to get close like that. I don't see it as an advanced mechanic. I see it as an advantage of having 4 umpires. However, for me, it is a little close for what I am use to. If I had that advantage, I might become accustom to getting that close if that is what is being recommended. But, I like being a little farther away to see everything I can on the play.

I think there are advantages and disadvantages to it. One disadvantage is he has been close to being in the plays if one blows up in his face. One advantage is to get a good look at something not possible if even 2 or 3 steps back. Matter of preference on tag plays.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

Mr. Umpire has it nailed, I will just add that he is young enough, and in great physical condition, so his ability to open up some room in the event of a blow up is much greater than some of the older guys. ( I would be one of those!)

Having the other bases covered is also a huge benefit, most of us have to cover a huge amount of ground in comparison, and if we were that close getting to the next play or a reasonable angle could be a big challenge.

Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

If I remember correctly and have seen before, PU should be covering 1B when U1 went out. No matter what, someone screwed up their assignment. I think U3 came over to cover U2 going to 1B since PU may not have been at 1B. But, I'm not sure about the correct rotation though I have seen it done that way before. It looked bad but U2 realized it quick enough and didn't make a call.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

If I remember correctly and have seen before, PU should be covering 1B when U1 went out. No matter what, someone screwed up their assignment. I think U3 came over to cover U2 going to 1B since PU may not have been at 1B. But, I'm not sure about the correct rotation though I have seen it done that way before. It looked bad but U2 realized it quick enough and didn't make a call.

32 seconds into clip shows good view of two guys at 2B and PU still at home. PU didn't drift to 1B and then didn't cover 3B when the rotation happened. An overthrow would have been interesting. I bet U2 would have continued over to 3B.

johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

wow, I've never seen that before. Somebody wasn't where they were supposed to be. I saw U1 go out. U2, must have stayed at 2B, then U3, for some reason rotated over, U2 must have seen that it was going to be a tag play, didn't need distance at 1B, lined up the catch and retouch, as U3 thought that U2 was going to float to 1B for a throw back and retouch, but he didn't, which probably left 3B unoccupied.

txump81

txump81

Posted
Posted

If you watch the last replay from the outfield fence, you can see U2 about 1/3 of the way to 1B and running towards 2B for the play. Looks like U2 drifted to 1B and then came back.

Fittske24

Fittske24

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

If I remember correctly and have seen before, PU should be covering 1B when U1 went out. No matter what, someone screwed up their assignment. I think U3 came over to cover U2 going to 1B since PU may not have been at 1B. But, I'm not sure about the correct rotation though I have seen it done that way before. It looked bad but U2 realized it quick enough and didn't make a call.

There are actually two options for rotation in the 4 man system on this play. One is the one Mr. Umpire talked about.( See "Option B" below). The other is where U2 is responsible for R1’s tag at first and all plays at first and second involving R1. (See "Option A" below). Either way, none of the options call for U3 taking the play at second in this situation. This is why a good pre-game is key.

4MAN_Mech.png

sdix00

sdix00

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Fittske, (or anyone) -

What book is this from?

I only have a couple books with decent four-man info and I am looking for more.

Thanks

Fittske24

Fittske24

Posted
Posted

Fittske, (or anyone) -

What book is this from?

I only have a couple books with decent four-man info and I am looking for more.

Thanks

It is something that I am building in my spare time using powerpoint. Its basically CCA mechanics with some PBUC mixed in. I still have a long way to go. I am concentrating on illustrating 2 man and 3 man first because that is what I use the most.

stl_ump

stl_ump

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

BTW.. did anyone notice the nice "right shoulder punch" the runner gave to the fielder? Knocked him over with it.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

http://washington.na...ent_id=11504867

Why do I see 2 umpires at 2B on this play? 1 out, R1 and U1 appears to be going out (looks like Joe West so he's getting the angle but not going very far). Did Bellino come over from 3B because U2 started to go to 1B and then then drifted back to 2B?

BTW.. did anyone notice the nice "right shoulder punch" the runner gave to the fielder? Knocked him over with it.

I just went back and looked at it. Looks pretty flagrant to me, but that's in slow mo from a wider angle. Everybody did their part and just rolled it up afterwards so I don't think it was a major deal, he knew he was out anyway. If anything the players will take care of it amongst themselves, I think it happened fast enough that neither umpire was going to see it unless they were trailing.

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Its basically CCA mechanics with some PBUC mixed in. I still have a long way to go.

Why would you do that? and I mean that seriously not sarcastic. It seems to me that we use either CCA or PBUC or HS mechanics on any particular game and don't use a mix -- unless of course you are doing this for your group and thats what you use.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

Its basically CCA mechanics with some PBUC mixed in. I still have a long way to go.

Why would you do that? and I mean that seriously not sarcastic. It seems to me that we use either CCA or PBUC or HS mechanics on any particular game and don't use a mix -- unless of course you are doing this for your group and thats what you use.

I would have to agree that mixing mechanics could get ugly. I personally prefer CCA mechanics because many of our guys work HS and College so to keep from missing a coverage I keep it the same. I used to use PBUC for everything but went to CCA about ten years ago. I have never taught NFHS mechanics, nor will I.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

I have never taught NFHS mechanics, nor will I.

+1 to that. But given the mess the rule book can be it's really no surprise that the UM is just as bad.

We used PBUC when I was in the Orlando area for many years, but it changed around 10 to 12 years ago to CCA, and everything in North Florida has been CCA since I've been here. Never knew why though, Michael why the switch? Just curious as to why there was a change in your Assn.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

We switched simply to keep from confusing the guys that worked both NCAA and Fed. I didn't want them to be working with guys that only work HS and suddenly do something the HS guy wasn't expecting. Or expect a HS guy to be somewhere according to CCA mechanics and he did something else because he was doing PBUC mechanics. To be honest there weren't that many differences in two man but there some in three man. Since most of the NCAA guys are doing three man on all conference games and most non conference, and there are diffferences between the two manuals I decided to stay with CCA. They get 60/70 three man games, they become crew chiefs on HS playoff games and can run the three man effortlessly.

Fittske24

Fittske24

Posted
Posted

Its basically CCA mechanics with some PBUC mixed in. I still have a long way to go.
Why would you do that? and I mean that seriously not sarcastic.  It seems to me that we use either CCA or PBUC or HS mechanics on any particular game and don't use a mix -- unless of course you are doing this for your group and thats what you use.

Everyone's group and situation is different. I would never mix mechanics in my HS group. Some umpires at the HS level struggle to grasp the concept of the 2 man system. For anyone interested in using that section of my powerpoint the content will be stictly vanilla. Now in my college group, we have may former professional umpires (most with AA or AAA experience) Some of the mechanics that the more experienced guys use can differ between CCA and PBUC. I will have them listed as "options" in my powerpoint. If you step onto a D-I field with some of those guys there is a good chance that something might get modified.

Th main reason I am doing this is so I can have my mechanics diagrams "mobile". So if there is a need in a pre game discussion to talk about a coverage or rotation I pull out my smartphone or iPad and off we go.

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