New chest protector

[BT_Blue]

One of the guys in my HS association actually velcroed on a 1/2 piece of plastic over the center of his K1. The first adaptation I have seen where I would actually go out onto the field with that CP. Otherwise, not a chance.

[Umpire in Chief]

I'm looking to buy a new chest protector. I have the Schutt Cool Flow (I think that's the name), and it's great for the little guys, up to 12 YO. But in the fall I did a few HS and college games and was in fear for my life the entire time. I'm about to start doing 14+ AAU, and I'll have more fall games this year I'm sure. I'm looking on Ump-Attire.com and they have the Diamond iX3 for $70 and the Wilson hard shell for $100. Any suggestions or testimonials? Or suggestions for other protectors? Anything I get will need to have attachable rib pads; I'm 6'7" and standard protectors leave about half of my ribcage exposed. Thanks in advance

Paperripper, I worked with a guy in my association Sunday who is also 6'7". It's been a while since we worked and he had the dish. But, He uses the Diamond iX3. We didn't discuss CPs directly, but he did say he likes it.

We were the all-star game umpires last sumer. I've attached a picture below. BTW I'm the short one...

[Paperipper17]

Paperripper, I worked with a guy in my association Sunday who is also 6'7". It's been a while since we worked and he had the dish. But, He uses the Diamond iX3. We didn't discuss CPs directly, but he did say he likes it.

We were the all-star game umpires last sumer. I've attached a picture below. BTW I'm the short one...

I did like the iX3's length, but Kevin posted that it was unsafe over 70 MPH...I checked with Diamond and they verified it. Which sucked because I liked the price and length.

[kylejt]

I did like the iX3's length, but Kevin posted that it was unsafe over 70 MPH...I checked with Diamond and they verified it. Which sucked because I liked the price and length.

Wow! Did Diamond actually state the their iX3 was unsafe at speeds over 70? Heck, I've encountered two 12 year olds dealing in LL Majors that threw 81.

[Paperipper17]

Wow! Did Diamond actually state the their iX3 was unsafe at speeds over 70? Heck, I've encountered two 12 year olds dealing in LL Majors that threw 81.

Response A: Holy hell, let's move those guys up before they hurt somebody . That's, like, LL world series velo.

B: I called Customer Service. They said something along the lines of, while we feel it is a very safe CP for all levels of youth baseball, it may "lose its integrity" if it's hit by anything moving much faster on a consistent basis.

I'm sure it will be fine taking a shot or three, but I wouldn't do older kids' games with it, when pitches that speed are the rule rather than the exception. Just my :rock

[Kevin Finnerty]

Wow! is right. That's astonishing that they confirmed that. Kudos to you for checking into that.

I didn't officially test it to arrive at that estimate, I unofficially tested it. I had a 75-ish m.p.h. uncaught fastball hit me flush on the right clavicle, and I now have a permanent bump on that bone. So I lowered the "safe" speed for that CP to 70 m.p.h. based on that drilling, and then, I never used it ever again.

... Over the winter, I did a couple dozen D-I intrasquad and scrimmage games at one of the leading universities (baseball experience of a lifetime). At one of the games, I saw one of our guys get ready to do the plate in the same Diamond, and made him use my Gold (or my Douglas, which I kept there just for that reason). I simply told him to use one of these, or I wouldn't let him do the plate. I was the guy who called him for the game, and I wasn't going to preside over an umpire being airlifted from the infield because he took a foul in the chest while wearing a Diamond Permawelt.

If one gets drilled in the sternum or left chest at 95 m.p.h. wearing that softball/Little League protector, it could be deadly. Hell, 85 could be deadly. And three of the pitchers that pitch there throw 95 routinely. Five others throw in the low-90s. So, in every game, there are several pitchers bringing it at 90-plus. That's a loooooong way from 70 m.p.h.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Kevin Finnerty

[Paperipper17]

Wow! That's astonishing that they confirmed that. Kudos to you for checking into that.

I didn't officially test it to arrive at that estimate, I unofficially tested it. I had a 75-ish m.p.h. uncaught fastball hit me flush on the right clavicle, and I now have a permanent bump on that bone. So I lowered the "safe" speed for that CP to 70 m.p.h. based on that drilling, and then, I never used it ever again.

... Over the winter, I did a couple dozen D-I intrasquad and scrimmage games at one of the leading universities (baseball experience of a lifetime). At one of the games, I saw one of our guys get ready to do the plate in the same Diamond, and made him use my Gold (or my Douglas, which I kept there just for that reason). I simply told him to use one of these, or I wouldn't let him do the plate. I was the guy who called him for the game, and I wasn't going to preside over an umpire being airlifted from the infield because he took a foul in the chest while wearing a Diamond Permawelt.

If one gets drilled in the sternum or left chest at 95 m.p.h. wearing that softball/Little League protector, it could be deadly. Hell, 85 could be deadly. And three of the pitchers that pitch there throw 95 routinely. Five others throw in the low-90s. So, in every game, there are several pitchers bringing it at 90-plus. That's a loooooong way from 70 m.p.h.

And Kudos to you for putting your foot down in the name of safety. I know too many guys who wouldn't notice or wouldn't care.

The actual speed Diamond gave me was 75. They did advise me against using it for anything past LL.

Ump-Attire.com's buyer guide states that it shouldn't be used above 14-15 YO: "The conventional wisdom is that there is no doubt these chest protectors provide adequate protection for youth levels and even through junior varsity (e.g. 14-15 yr. olds). However, there is continuing debate on whether these styles provide adequate protection at the high school level. While manufacturers claim they are, some veteran umpires including those who have used both hard and soft shell types recommend only the hard shell variety at this level."

After reading that, I'm surprised I got Diamond to admit it was unsafe...Must've gotten a rep that moonlights as an ump. Either way to him.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Now I'm not much of a beer drinker anymore, but I love lifting mugs full of the stuff and toasting things: Here, here! :rock

[JaxRolo]

The actual speed Diamond gave me was 75. They did advise me against using it for anything past LL.

Ump-Attire.com's buyer guide states that it shouldn't be used above 14-15 YO: "The conventional wisdom is that there is no doubt these chest protectors provide adequate protection for youth levels and even through junior varsity (e.g. 14-15 yr. olds). However, there is continuing debate on whether these styles provide adequate protection at the high school level. While manufacturers claim they are, some veteran umpires including those who have used both hard and soft shell types recommend only the hard shell variety at this level."

After reading that, I'm surprised I got Diamond to admit it was unsafe...Must've gotten a rep that moonlights as an ump. Either way to him.

Darn, I forgot where I got mine but I bought my iX3 last fall and it was advertised as good through college level ball. What a rip!

So far the hits I have taken haven't hurt any at all. But now I am leery to use it. I have to go buy another one.

I need more games to help pay for my expenses!!! :BD:

[Kevin Finnerty]

I love your signature line by the way:

"Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

This man, Mr. Giamatti is one of the greatest men I ever met in my life. His warmth of spirit and matchless intellect were his trademarks, but he carried himself into a ballpark and he was every man. I met him outside the eighth floor elevator at Dodger Stadium before Game 1 of the 1988 NLCS. He was coming into the ballpark with Frank Cashen of the Mets.

I started gushing at Mr. Giamatti, whom I admired and adored, and just got on an old-fashioned roll. By the time the elevator came, I had him in stitches. We got on the elevator, and the rollicking continued. By the time we got to the first floor, he walked off the elevator with tears in his eyes and his arm around my shoulder like an Italian uncle. He told me, "Baseball is a funny game; and you, my friend, have as firm a grasp of that as any young man I've met. It's been a pleasure."

Then, as if that moment could possibly get better, Roy and Roxie Campanella came around the corner, and I got to introduce them to each other and hang out in the tunnel while Campy and Roxie and Mr. Giamatti all hugged each other. That went on for about 10 minutes.

I have been a ballpark rat in L.A. dating back to 1967. My experiences inside the halls, elevators and tunnels of Dodger Stadium rank as some of the greatest experiences of any kind in my entire life. I met mayors, governors, senators, a few presidents, dozens of Hall of Famers, hundreds of entertainers---I even got a wave from Pope John Paul II outside the eighth floor elevator at Dodger Stadium. But that experience meeting Mr. Giamatti and seeing him meet Roy and Roxie Campanella when we got downstairs was absolutely on the short list.

What a different game it would have been if Mr. Giamatti had lived a fuller life. We would have had a commissioner whose interest was the good of the game, and not the padding of the owners' already vast fortunes.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Kevin Finnerty

[Kevin Finnerty]

Touché, Brother!

That's a riveting story. Whew!

[kylejt]

Response A: Holy hell, let's move those guys up before they hurt somebody . That's, like, LL world series velo.

:

One of those kids tossing 81, from my home league, actually did propel his team to Williamsport in '05. Struck out 18 in 6 innings there too. The other kid had no control, and actually broke an umpire's steel mask, broke another one's hand, put down two catchers, and had me take a knee on a shot to the upper thigh.

WEAR PRO GEAR

[Paperipper17]

I love your signature line by the way:

"Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers." - A. Bartlett Giamatti

This man, Mr. Giamatti is one of the greatest men I ever met in my life. His warmth of spirit and matchless intellect were his trademarks, but he carried himself into a ballpark and he was every man. I met him outside the eighth floor elevator at Dodger Stadium before Game 1 of the 1988 NLCS. He was coming into the ballpark with Frank Cashen of the Mets.

I started gushing at Mr. Giamatti, whom I admired and adored, and just got on an old-fashioned roll. By the time the elevator came, I had him in stitches. We got on the elevator, and the rollicking continued. By the time we got to the first floor, he walked off the elevator with tears in his eyes and his arm around my shoulder like an Italian uncle. He told me, "Baseball is a funny game; and you, my friend, have as firm a grasp of that as any young man I've met. It's been a pleasure."

Then, as if that moment could possibly get better, Roy and Roxie Campanella came around the corner, and I got to introduce them to each other and hang out in the tunnel while Campy and Roxie and Mr. Giamatti all hugged each other. That went on for about 10 minutes.

I have been a ballpark rat in L.A. dating back to 1967. My experiences inside the halls, elevators and tunnels of Dodger Stadium rank as some of the greatest experiences of any kind in my entire life. I met mayors, governors, senators, a few presidents, dozens of Hall of Famers, hundreds of entertainers---I even got a wave from Pope John Paul II outside the eighth floor elevator at Dodger Stadium. But that experience meeting Mr. Giamatti and seeing him meet Roy and Roxie Campanella when we got downstairs was absolutely on the short list.

What a different game it would have been if Mr. Giamatti had lived a fuller life. We would have had a commissioner whose interest was the good of the game, and not the padding of the owners' already vast fortunes.

great story...I've heard nothing but good things about the guy and the quote I use is my second favorite, my favorite being the famous "It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." but I thought the other was more apropos for this forum. He was one hell of an orator, that's for sure.

One of those kids tossing 81, from my home league, actually did propel his team to Williamsport in '05. Struck out 18 in 6 innings there too. The other kid had no control, and actually broke an umpire's steel mask, broke another one's hand, put down two catchers, and had me take a knee on a shot to the upper thigh.

WEAR PRO GEAR

A-freaking-men. I'd venture to say a good part of injuries come from either not paying attention or inferior equipment.

[tjthresh]

I hope Gerry Davis will let me exchange the iX3 they sold me.

[zm1283]

One of those kids tossing 81, from my home league, actually did propel his team to Williamsport in '05. Struck out 18 in 6 innings there too. The other kid had no control, and actually broke an umpire's steel mask, broke another one's hand, put down two catchers, and had me take a knee on a shot to the upper thigh.

WEAR PRO GEAR

12 and 13 year-olds should not be throwing from 46 feet. It's a joke.

[kylejt]

I hope Gerry Davis will let me exchange the iX3 they sold me.

Not if you actually wore it. I tried to return their worthless Davishield, and was told that once I put it on, it was mine. No returns.

[kylejt]

46', 60' and 200' work well for 98 percent of the kids. It's those "freaks" that make it interesting.

But 80 mph from 46' gets to you faster than any MLB pitcher can. It's truly a challenge not to blink, 'cause it gets there faster than a blink. How kids hit that is beyond me, but they occasionally did.

Edited March 16, 2010 by kylejt

[tjthresh]

Not if you actually wore it. I tried to return their worthless Davishield, and was told that once I put it on, it was mine. No returns.

Well, then that's what I'm wearing this year. Pray for me.

[Kevin Finnerty]

46', 60' and 200' work well for 98 percent of the kids. It's those "freaks" that make it interesting.

But 80 mph from 46' gets to you faster than any MLB pitcher can. It's truly a challenge not to blink, 'cause it gets there faster than a blink. How kids hit that is beyond me, but they occasionally did.

My kid was one of those freaks. He was 6'0'' and 185 in Bronco. That was age 12.

Here he is at age 11 (5'10''/175):

He threw at about 70-to-80 percent (which is why his arm still works to this day), and still dominated. He also hit bombs that sometimes went 120 feet past the fence. He was in a pretty advanced PONY league (three current major leaguers), but he still had to leave to play travel only after he turned 13. The way he pitched and slugged, the distances were preposterous for him and a few others, so we started putting them in 60/90 tournaments year-round, and it was the best thing we could have done. I also had him playing wood bat summer ball starting at 15. Those kids hit the ground running when they hit high school.

(Both those guys play in college, because they played travel ball and scout ball instead of being allowed to tear up their league for a couple of meaningless years.)

Edited March 17, 2010 by Kevin Finnerty

[Paperipper17]

I feel his pain haha . I was a solid F2 when I was 11, but when I was 12, I was about 6'2", 200. 6'4" by 13. Moved to F3/F5...growing that fast takes a toll on the knees and heels, as I'm sure you know. We couldn't afford travel ball, but my dad petitioned to association to allow me to move up to 90 foot bases when I was 12 instead of 13. Best thing he could have done. By the time I made varsity in HS, I was 6'5", 220, and had a year advantage on most kids. Went to college as a F3, converted to full-time F1, and left college as a 6'7", 225 lb umpire . By the way, I'm also the poster child for not throwing curveballs until you're 14 or so, but that's another thread . I'm fully for moving dominant kids up, or at least making a select travel team out of them. It doesn't help them to dominate smaller kids for an extra year, and it doesn't help the smaller kids that have to be dominated either. Had a game last night...two F1s were both over 6', dealing. Ended up being a 2-1 game. Yes, great game to watch, but the hitters were ridiculously overmatched and one of the catchers had no clue...one of the guys struck out 5 in an inning twice. in fact the 1 run the away team scored came on the 4th strikeout being dropped. That can't be helping anyone.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Wow, 6'7''!

My guy stopped at 6'4''/235. He was a DH/P in high school and the first year of college and now he's strictly a pitcher. (He pitches like Brandon Wood.)

All the guys around here who threw curveballs at 12 were done at 16 or 17. The handful of guys who were not allowed to throw anything but backspin pitches as children are now dotting the rosters of colleges throughout the Southland.

ANY SO-CALLED ADULT THAT ALLOWS A PITCHING PROSPECT TO THROW A TOPSPIN PITCH AS A CHILD IS PRACTICING A FORM OF CHILD ABUSE AND EXPLOITATION! IT'S A DISGRACE.

[Umpire in Chief]

I say this having zero pitching experience, but as an umpire who has seen a huge variety of pitching deliveries. If I can tell before the pitcher has even released the ball that it is going to be a curve, he's using improper mechanics.

The kids that generate the torque needed for a curve from their elbow are the ones that are the burned out/need surgery before high school (I cringe when I see this). The ones who use proper mechanics can be effective if; they don't make it their bread and butter pitch, they understand that at their age by throwing it with good mechanics they are most likely not going to have as dramatic a curve as the kid with the improper mechanics, and if they learn the value of just placing the pitch where they want it and learn how to vary their speed and delivery.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Absolutely incorrect.

This issue is based almost solely on the fact that human skeletal growth is incomplete until the late teens. They should not be throwing topspin breaking balls or any stiff-wristed pitch, period.

[Paperipper17]

Not to mention the ligaments, tendons, and nerves. My career ended my junior year of college when I tore my ulnar nerve for the second time. Yes, it's just as unlikely as it sounds. They told me it was due to (an obscene amount of) overwork, on top of which, due to improper mechanics as a kid, never strengthened properly. I threw a lot of curveballs when I was way too young, and apparently that was a huge factor.

[Kevin Finnerty]

There's a D-I sophomore pitcher, who actually goes to the bullpen between innings, and throws, stretches, does yoga and isometrics, etc., while he's pitching a ballgame! From his make-up and his stuff, and the stuff that the scouts are saying, he's major-league-bound. But the work he does is absolutely off the charts.

So it's more what you're doing with your arm, and not how much.