Can't find this ruling in the book...

[Jboval]

Pitcher has a hat on (white), that keeps falling off when he delivers the ball. Asked them to replace it next time out, they tried to fix the problem, but still happened, I called time, had him switch with someone in the field where it wouldn't be a distraction if it fell off of their head.

My real question is this, what if it continues to happen? Is this an illegal pitch type situation, or a warn, and if persists, eject situation?

Just curious what you guys think...

[SNIPERBBB]

In FED I believe if the said piece of equipment is not being worn as the manufacturer intended, it should be corrected or removed.

[JamesC]

That's a good question, and I could definitely see where that could be causing a problem! I would probably go with Sniper's suggestion. If it cannot be corrected (which there is no reason the kid should have bought a hat that didn't fit him in the first place), then it should be removed! Just my 2 cents though...

[BrianC14]

This is an interesting question.

The OP asks for a rule citation.

Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller? Bueller? :wow:

[Umpire in Chief]

I looked at FED Rule 1-4 nothing specifically mentioned.

I would not call an illegal pitch provided he is not quick pitching and is on the rubber. I'd probably start with a casual conversation with the players coach asking him to find the player a cap which fits. Second offense a talk directly with the pitcher. Third good ol' Rule 10-2-2/10-1-1.

I read through all relevant rules and could have sworn there was a phrase along the lines of 'properly worn' in regards to uniform in there but couldn't find it.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I'm writing from Canada so there are no specific Baseball Canada rules regarding this and afer checking the uniform rule section of OBR 1.11 and it does not mention a ball cap. So I would just tell the pitcher he can pitch without a cap. He does not gain any advantage with this move and the game can continue without any further delays.

[Mr Umpire]

I'm writing from Canada so there are no specific Baseball Canada rules regarding this and afer checking the uniform rule section of OBR 1.11 and it does not mention a ball cap. So I would just tell the pitcher he can pitch without a cap. He does not gain any advantage with this move and the game can continue without any further delays.

While there is no rule about the hat falling off in OBR, there is a rule that all must be the same. The hat is part of the uniform and must be worn(at least at the start of play). I will make him wear the cap though I know he gains nothing from it. For me, the point is to prevent any possible issues with the opposing coach.

It's an issue I wouldn't be hard pressed on but I am not going to TELL him to take it off. If he takes it off and I don't notice it (and may not unless the other team brings it up), then he may play without it. But if I notice it (i.e. other manager mentions it), then he has to put it on to play.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Mr Umpire

[NFUA_44]

Ok, I'll bite on it. If it was an issue, and continued, I would have to give a warning to F1, and maybe even the coach, with a low key explanation, that allowing a batted ball to be touched by a cap, mask, or other piece of equipment that isn't being used properly is going to allow the batter a three base award.

OBR 7.05(B)Three bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril;

I'm getting the deliberate action, assuming it happens AFTER the warning. Of course the need for the warning could be hastened by the opposing coach making an issue of the situation.

[mstaylor]

I don't agree you can get an intentional detached equipment call. I will try and get a hat switch to fix the problem but in the long run if it can't be fixed, leave it alone.

[jjb]

9.01 (

screw gun

problem solved

[mstaylor]

9.01 (B)

screw gun

problem solved

I imediately thought of the "too light""too heavy" commercials. Too heavy! Funny though.

[actvii]

there is no ruling for this but if the umpire feels this is being done to distract the batter the pitcher can be ejected.

[NFUA_44]

I don't agree you can get an intentional detached equipment call. I will try and get a hat switch to fix the problem but in the long run if it can't be fixed, leave it alone.

Michael, I always respect your opinion's here and elsewhere, and may not have been clear enough. I was taking a pretty long pot shot here, I agree that it's definitley a booger best left unpicked. However if I was really pressed , and someone wanted to commit hari kari , after the warning was issued, I'd feel at least OK going with this.

Gotta love the fall, although having the huge benefit of living in Florida, I just finished my final game of 2009............Now it's time to open my box of books just received from FHSAA, and start waiting for Jan 3 (off to Harry's School!!!!B)) to get here.

[mazzamouth]

there is no ruling for this but if the umpire feels this is being done to distract the batter the pitcher can be ejected.

there is no way in god green earth am I gonna EJ a pitcher for a hat falling off?.... Please give a rule on this one....

maybe just maybe I talk to F1 and see whats happening, just if it just "falls off" there is nothing we can do...

[mstaylor]

Michael, I always respect your opinion's here and elsewhere, and may not have been clear enough. I was taking a pretty long pot shot here, I agree that it's definitley a booger best left unpicked. However if I was really pressed , and someone wanted to commit hari kari , after the warning was issued, I'd feel at least OK going with this.

Gotta love the fall, although having the huge benefit of living in Florida, I just finished my final game of 2009............Now it's time to open my box of books just received from FHSAA, and start waiting for Jan 3 (off to Harry's School!!!!) to get here.

I have had that situation and the whole team had flexfit hats so there was no switching. I simply told the coach there was nothing to be done. I find it annoying as anybody but I'm not going to search for a rule to hang my hat on, pun intended. I tell them to fix it if they can, if not we are dealing with it.

[actvii]

there is no way in god green earth am I gonna EJ a pitcher for a hat falling off?.... Please give a rule on this one....

maybe just maybe I talk to F1 and see whats happening, just if it just "falls off" there is nothing we can do...

There is no ruling on this that has been established. You are correct if the hat just falls off we can't do anything. I know the post says the hat just falls off. But if the hat is falling off due to the pitcher's delivery(hitting the glove or arm) and the ump feels this is being done to distract the batter after talking F1 and this continues the ump can eject pitcher. This question is also on the interactive quiz on the ump-news site and the answer supports mine. I don't know about you, but if my hat kept falling off I would want to correct the problem.

[dawg-man]

I would find it very hard to eject a pitcher because his hat continues to fall off. I would tell the coach either he could get another hat or replace the pitchr but why eject a kid for something that may be out of his control. I remember reading about this situation in a case book for high school ball. If someone has the case book with them please check this out and let us know.

[DirtyDawg]

Wouldn't this sort of be the same as a person wearing a gold chain while on the mound? It's deemed distracting to the batter.

[PeteBooth]

Pitcher has a hat on (white), that keeps falling off when he delivers the ball. Asked them to replace it next time out, they tried to fix the problem, but still happened, I called time, had him switch with someone in the field where it wouldn't be a distraction if it fell off of their head.

My real question is this, what if it continues to happen? Is this an illegal pitch type situation, or a warn, and if persists, eject situation?

Just curious what you guys think...

I do not know how a hat falling off F1's head is a distraction nor how you can possibly interpret this as an illegal pitch. The batter should be concentrating on the BALL not F1's cap.

Did you ever see Mark the Bird Fiderich pitch? He did all kinds of antics on the mound etc. if I remember his cap fell off quite a few times. Nothing in the rule book about it.

What about these situations?

A fielder EVERY time he chases after a fly ball, his hat comes off or a player running the bases loses his helmet.

Each school only gets so many hats / helmets and sometimes they simply do not fit properly. I am more of a stickler when the kid comes to bat and his helmet is not on correctly then I am when a cap comes off becasue a fielder is chasing a fly ball or in your case the cap comes off when F1 pitches.

IMO, you can open up a can of worms with this one.

Leave it alone.

Pete Booth

[NFUA_44]

IMO, you can open up a can of worms with this one.

Leave it alone.

Pete Booth

Amen Pete. Though I would say just the exercise of trying to play around with this in this forum, is probably more effort than should be given the actual incident on the field.

Tom

[Don]

Relatively rare to see a pitcher's cap come off during a pitch. If it is coming off routinely, it is very possible that is being done intentionally to distract.

Base runners losing their helmets while running is irrelevant to this post.

[Finnblue]

The human eye is a funny organ. It has a tendency to check what is that thing that is moving. So if the batter triest to concentrate on the white ball that is leaving F1's hand and right behind it another white object is moving rapidly so some other direction. I'd find that a bit distacting.

But this situation is one of those HTBT ones.

MS

[Jboval]

Haven't been back on to check responses in a while.. sorry. Couple thing seems to be in question, so let me clear them up with more specifics:

The kids hat came off 8 times in the top of the first

The hat is white

No joke.... I was going crazy back there trying to think about a ruling while still trying to pay attention to what was going on. Rather than stop everything (especially since no one complained) I just waited until the half inning was over, went to the Mgr. and asked him if he had a staple gun or something... Second inning was a repeat of the first, again, no complaints, and I am thinking this is because the coaches couldn't think of what to say either, and I went back to the coach and said "Enough is enough, get him a different hat".

It all comes down to this, the coach was fine with it, and did finally get another coaches hat that would fit him, but what if he had argued? What if he sent him back out? I can't ignore it. I guess if I told him to get him a different hat, and he sent him back out again without doing so, I could EJ the Mgr.. I just wanted to get some other opinions.

Thanks guys!

[Umpire in Chief]

Sounds like you handled it well.

[BrianC14]

Haven't been back on to check responses in a while.. sorry. Couple thing seems to be in question, so let me clear them up with more specifics:

The kids hat came off 8 times in the top of the first

The hat is white

No joke.... I was going crazy back there trying to think about a ruling while still trying to pay attention to what was going on. Rather than stop everything (especially since no one complained) I just waited until the half inning was over, went to the Mgr. and asked him if he had a staple gun or something... Second inning was a repeat of the first, again, no complaints, and I am thinking this is because the coaches couldn't think of what to say either, and I went back to the coach and said "Enough is enough, get him a different hat".

It all comes down to this, the coach was fine with it, and did finally get another coaches hat that would fit him, but what if he had argued? What if he sent him back out? I can't ignore it. I guess if I told him to get him a different hat, and he sent him back out again without doing so, I could EJ the Mgr.. I just wanted to get some other opinions.

Thanks guys!

Forget about a written rule. Sometimes you just have to umpire the game.

You simply tell him that the hat continually coming off is distracting to YOU, and something needs to be done about it, or you might find yourself rendered incapable of calling a strike until the problem is fixed.

If that doesn't get the message across, then let the walk-a-thon commence. :givebeer: