un-sportsman conduct

[bwchubb]

just curious of any thoughts,,

today, home team losing 20 -3. the visiting team coach instructed his batters to hit opposite side. the pitchers for the home team, struck 3 batters. 1 pitcher hit 2, and was removed, which brought out the following.

the home team coach, [understandably frustrated] accuses the visiting coach of being unsportsman-like, and his pitchers are 'freaked out' with the left handed hitters. visiting coach responds to the effect, when he was in cooperstown, they suggest, when the game is lop-sided as is, to make the playing on a more level plain. home team coach, quickly and rather affirmitivly quips back, this is not cooperstown.

i silently agreed with the visiting coach. between innings, the two coaches began a conversation which i broke up after the warm up pitches. there was no need for any ejection,

the visitors seemed to be trying not to embarrass the home team with the high score.

game ended in 5th inning with the 10 run rule.

curious if anyone has had anything similar, and is this what cooperstown actually tells the teams ?

[LeoDev]

I was doing a 14 YO tourney earlier this year when one team was up by double digits. The coach of the team leading instructed his players to "work on something." The batters would come up to the plate and try bunting, hitting to the opposite field, etc. The coach of the losing did NOT have a problem with what was going on.

FWIW, I have no knowledge of what Cooperstown says about this.

[arbiter22]

As a former player (i was a pitcher) regardless if I was up a lot or down a lot, if someone from the other team tried to bunt they would be getting hit. Before everyone makes the wise cracks I'll pick on my self and say I'm usually the one giving up a lot of runs. This is why I now umpire.

Also, I wasn't there when the coaches were talking or whatever so I speak to this specific situation. But something to keep in mind is that nothing good can come from an umpire allowing two coaches from opposing teams have a conversation of that nature. If they need to settle their difference they can do it when I'm not there.

[carolinablue]

As an umpire I try not to suggest what one team or the other should do in blow out games. I try to manage the game effectivly and keep things from getting out of hand.

As a former player and coach, I would say " calling off the dogs " so to speak is ample enough. No stealing, go base to base ect. The other team should understand what you are doing.

IMO, by no means should you bunt or start batting opposite as that could be interpreted as showing the other team up. What if someone hits a homerun batting opposite, that's salt in the wounds to me.

I would tell my players sometimes to take till they had two on them and work on thier two strike hitting. But if the pitcher can't throw strikes I wouldn't do it.

[therefump]

There is a rule if you read up (I'm not going to quote it but it's after section 9) that you can call a game based on "making a Travesty of the game". I've heard some techno-umpires claim that it's gotta be something like running the bases backwards, etc. HOWEVER, if you've got a blowout and the team is joking around (who's winning) being stupid then you've got an enforcement of the rule. Remember, it's a judgement call. Have at it Brian.................

:yippie:

[HokieUmp]

the home team coach, [understandably frustrated] accuses the visiting coach of being unsportsman-like, and his pitchers are 'freaked out' with the left handed hitters.

"Freaked out?" What, aren't there any left handed batters out that way? I don't understand why a kid wouldn't be able to just pitch, FFS.

the visitors seemed to be trying not to embarrass the home team with the high score.

I just wish, sometimes, that if teams were that far ahead, they'd be "swinging through" pitches. But no one want to miss the chance to pad stats.

But I do like the effort by the visiting coach.

[HokieUmp]

There is a rule if you read up (I'm not going to quote it but it's after section 9) that you can call a game based on "making a Travesty of the game". I've heard some techno-umpires claim that it's gotta be something like running the bases backwards, etc. HOWEVER, if you've got a blowout and the team is joking around (who's winning) being stupid then you've got an enforcement of the rule. Remember, it's a judgement call. Have at it Brian.................

I won't wait for Brian, so I'll throw this out:

1. You call a game in a situation like the above, I hope you enjoy the return trip to the same ballpark to finish the protested game when the protest is upheld. (And that return trip would be unpaid, I might add.)

2. If you were my partner and did something like that, it'd be the last time we'd work together. Well, after we had to go back and work the rest of the game, unpaid, when the protest was upheld, etc, etc.

Perhaps that sounds a bit harsh, but while we're talking rulebooks, can you find me the rule that prohibits a player from batting from the other side of the plate from his original at-bat? And no, it's not part of 9.01©.

Really? Call the game?

[mstaylor]

You didn't say what level this was but it had to be young if a batter hitting opposite handed freaks them out. There are many things a coach can do to help a lopsided game get to a painless ending. If they are batting opposite handed in earnest then there is nothing wrong with it. If they are making half hearted swings and laughing about it then it is going to bring about problems.

[therefump]

I won't wait for Brian, so I'll throw this out:

1. You call a game in a situation like the above, I hope you enjoy the return trip to the same ballpark to finish the protested game when the protest is upheld. (And that return trip would be unpaid, I might add.)

2. If you were my partner and did something like that, it'd be the last time we'd work together. Well, after we had to go back and work the rest of the game, unpaid, when the protest was upheld, etc, etc.

Perhaps that sounds a bit harsh, but while we're talking rulebooks, can you find me the rule that prohibits a player from batting from the other side of the plate from his original at-bat? And no, it's not part of 9.01©.

Really? Call the game?

Good points. However, I have been in a few games in my 28 years where I've called games based on the kids screwing around. IMHO when the kids on one side have decided it's over and are making the kids on the other side look like idiots (intentional or not) then it's time to end the game. Yea, I'll finish the game under protest on another day of the loosing coach wants to go through that pain but unless both sides are trying to play I'm going to kill it.

We're talking HS, Legion, over 30, Sr. Connie Mac, etc. Not little league.

Roy

[MCLEOD36]

Heck, let them work on something. I get more irritated when a coach is running his players and / or taunting. Just make sure you know the mercy rule and call it quickly.

[leonardo]

I am not opposed to coaches teaching and working on things in blowout games like this as long as it doesn't further delay the game. I can tell you that there have been a few times where I have gone over to the team that was winning and advised them that the zone was widening and their players needed to be swinging. I have never had a coach complain or be concerned about that tactic. Sometimes they even come over and recommend it themselves!

[Umpire in Chief]

I had a game with the perennial private school powerhouse and another private school I'd never heard of. After the first inning the score was 22-0. They turned off the scoreboard after the first inning so I will never know what the final score was. The winning team had a lot of class and started going station to station, not leading off and just trying to get through the game. I was behind the plate. We were only in the second inning after an hour and a half and the score had to be in the thirties to nothing. None of the visitors pitchers could find the plate with GPS. And if it got to where it was conceivably hitable they hit it.

I'd already opened up as wide as I could without being insane, and still couldn't buy a strike. In the bottom of the third the first pitch comes in about 5' off the ground. I give the weakest most sheepish strike call you've ever seen. As I'm calling the strike I'm looking the home coach in the eyes. He knods his head and claps his hands.

While the visitors changed pitchers for the 5th or 6th time. I spoke to the coach and apologized for getting those strikes. He told me any pitch even if in the dirt and his guys don't swing get a strike. I felt horrible for some of the strikes I was getting and it was frustrating me to do it. Equally as bad of a situation as I was in for getting ridiculous strikes, was these kids had too much pride not to hit it when they could. But it didn't matter because we had dozens of fielding errors.

I think they were honestly trying to hit it in the infield for ground outs at times, but that didn't work as planned.

The visitors did score 1 run out of mercy. They unintentionally-intentionally walked their lead off runner in the 4th, "let" him steal second and third, then "let" him score on a ground out.

[okump96]

class "b" district championship game last thursday, score was 20-0 in the 2nd. winning coach has tried everything he could to end the inning and nothing worked, so he tells his next 2 batters to bat out of order.

this coach is very classy in these situations. i've worked a couple of his blowouts and after going station to station he will tell his slowest runner to steal so he can get thrown out or have a runner go down the 3b line and stop for the tag.

[PeteBooth]

just curious of any thoughts,,

today, home team losing 20 -3. the visiting team coach instructed his batters to hit opposite side. the pitchers for the home team, struck 3 batters. 1 pitcher hit 2, and was removed, which brought out the following.

the home team coach, [understandably frustrated] accuses the visiting coach of being unsportsman-like, and his pitchers are 'freaked out' with the left handed hitters. visiting coach responds to the effect, when he was in cooperstown, they suggest, when the game is lop-sided as is, to make the playing on a more level plain. home team coach, quickly and rather affirmitivly quips back, this is not cooperstown.

i silently agreed with the visiting coach. between innings, the two coaches began a conversation which i broke up after the warm up pitches. there was no need for any ejection,

the visitors seemed to be trying not to embarrass the home team with the high score.

game ended in 5th inning with the 10 run rule.

curious if anyone has had anything similar, and is this what cooperstown actually tells the teams ?

The aforementioned is why Amateur baseball should be TIMED. When the game does NOT resemble a game it's time to go.

What I try to do (doesn't always work) is talk to the coach who is getting drilled and say something along the lines of "skip want to save arms and play another day". Hopefully you can get the coach of the team who is getting drilled to concede the game and go home.

It's the umpires who take the brunt of it because the strike zone starts to get ridiculous etc.

Also, some leagues put in this mercy rule: 15 after 3; 12 after 4; and 8 after 5.

Pete Booth

[LMSANS]

This is where softball has a big advantage. When the games get way out of hand, the coaches tell their runners to step off or take a lead. In softball, with the look-back rule, that's an out. It doesn't force the players to really lay down or hurt their stats. I like when I hear the 3rd base coach say "hey blue..." and then point at their runner.

[noumpere]

There is a rule if you read up (I'm not going to quote it but it's after section 9) that you can call a game based on "making a Travesty of the game".

The "techno umpires" are right. You can't call a game because one team chooses to bat opposite-handed.

[Umpire in Chief]

The aforementioned is why Amateur baseball should be TIMED. When the game does NOT resemble a game it's time to go.

What I try to do (doesn't always work) is talk to the coach who is getting drilled and say something along the lines of "skip want to save arms and play another day". Hopefully you can get the coach of the team who is getting drilled to concede the game and go home.

I actually had a conversation with ump81 Saturday about a college game he had where it was out of control and no 10RR. The losing coach wanted to concede, but they hadn't gotten to the point where the stats would be recorded and the home coach didn't want to loose his guys hitting and pitching stats.

[kylejt]

I believe the Cooperstown reference was regarding a team that played earlier this year in the Cooperstown Dream Park (12u). That team was up by over 40, and kept on piling on the runs. The team got booed, heckled, and then tossed from the tournament.

[mstaylor]

The first D1 game I ever worked was a lopsided game and the home team was getting thumped. After seven with a 21/0 score I go to the home manager and asked if he was conceding. He said he wanted to get some of his pitchers some work. It was 30 degrees with a 20 MPH wind and snow flurries. :banghead:

[ibby135]

In slow-pitch softball they use a flip-flop rule. I believe it starts in the second inning if a team is up by x amount (maybe more than 15) the losing team stay at bat until they get it below the mercy or it becomes an official game. Meaning they bat when 3 outs are recorded the innng ends. They stay at bat until 3 outs are recorded etc...

[mstaylor]

I love the USSSA flipflop rule. Whenever the visiting team is in a game ending situation they stay at bat and the visitors and home teams change positions. it carries on until the game ends or the new visitors need to flip. It can greatly speed up a game.