Check Swing Appeals

[AmackNH]

If you are the PU and your partner is in "B" or "C" do you ever grant the appeal on the check swing???

[LMSANS]

If you are the PU and your partner is in "B" or "C" do you ever grant the appeal on the check swing???

Unless they're being a complete A$$, I will always do the appeal. And I always discuss in pre-game that I will go to him no matter where he is and the reverse when I'm BU.

[JaxRolo]

I will always grant an appeal. Even if I'm working Solo!

Except at CDP. They said never to appeal with BU at B or C.

[mstaylor]

I will always ask no matter where the umpire is. I tell guys if they aren't sure, then safe it, no problem. If they call it a strike or a ball, it's all good.

[LMSANS]

If you are the PU and your partner is in "B" or "C" do you ever grant the appeal on the check swing???

Unless they're being a complete A$$, I will always do the appeal. And I always discuss in pre-game that I will go to him no matter where he is and the reverse when I'm BU.

I have to modify my answer because of something that happened in a college wood bat league the other night...I called a strike on the swing and the 1B coach asked me to check with my partner. I obviously declined.

[mjr_2013]

What about with a lefty batter and your partner in A?

[carolinablue]

Like others have said, if I asked I will always go to my partner and I always bring it up during pre-game.

[mstaylor]

What about with a lefty batter and your partner in A?

Had a PU come to me the other day. I safed it. It is possible to call from there but he has to really go pretty far.

[Mr Umpire]

Except for one already called a strike or they are doing it on obvious ones, I ask no matter which side the batter is on or where my partner is. In OBR, it is required by rule. In FED, the umpire has the option but should.

[mjr_2013]

What about with a lefty batter and your partner in A?

Had a PU come to me the other day. I safed it. It is possible to call from there but he has to really go pretty far.

If you're a PU and you're mindful enough to realize it in time, do you grant the appeal or make the call? It seems like you would have a better vantage point than someone who can only see the batters back... Assume FED or LL for this.

[mstaylor]

I go ahead and go. If I called it a ball and they ask I will too. If he bangs a strike then we are strike closer to being done, if he safes it then no big deal.

Once upon a time the PU had all kinds of little signals to tell the BU what to call. I always managed to miss them or forget what they meant and just called what I had.

[mazzamouth]

BY rule you have to grant them the appeal for a check swing.. who gives a rats ass where your partner is.. are you telling me that in "B" or "C" you can tell if a batter "attempted" to hit a pitch? Call what you see , see what you call... when the Catcher or coach/manage ask for help on a check swing.. ask your partner... be an approachable umpire..

[AmackNH]

who gives a rats ass where your partner is..

Clearly I DO. But thanks for offering your opinion. Glad you were approachable enough that I could ask this question and get a well mannered response :-)

[noumpere]

What about with a lefty batter and your partner in A?

Had a PU come to me the other day. I safed it. It is possible to call from there but he has to really go pretty far.

If you're a PU and you're mindful enough to realize it in time, do you grant the appeal or make the call? It seems like you would have a better vantage point than someone who can only see the batters back... Assume FED or LL for this.

Your wrong again because if your watching the pitch you dont always see the swing especially if the pitch is down and away. And some legues have it to go to the umpire on the line in a three-man crew with one in the middle.

[LMSANS]

who gives a rats ass where your partner is..

Clearly I DO. But thanks for offering your opinion. Glad you were approachable enough that I could ask this question and get a well mannered response :-)

"Lighten up, Francis."

Mazza sometimes belies his true depth of knowledge & experience with a penchant for cruel & unusual phrasing. :wacko:

[BillB1960]

As PU I always grant the appeal on a checked swing if I called it a ball regardless of where my partner is. I have missed a swing once on a low outside pitch.

[AmackNH]

who gives a rats ass where your partner is..

Clearly I DO. But thanks for offering your opinion. Glad you were approachable enough that I could ask this question and get a well mannered response :-)

"Lighten up, Francis."

Mazza sometimes belies his true depth of knowledge & experience with a penchant for cruel & unusual phrasing.

I am learning to take the snippy responses with a grain of salt...my personality however, does not always allow me to do so silently...LOL

[Dragon29]

NHRookieBLue,

From reading your OP, it sounds to me as if you believe the position of the bat, the bat head, the batter's hands or wrists have something to do with this call. I say this because in the situations you've described, these specific items/areas can be hard to see.

But - they don't matter. (at least, not very much)

The BU's job in this situation is to rule on whether or not he believes the batter made an attempt to hit the pitch. You can make that ruling from anywhere; hell, we all make that ruling when watching MLB games on TV, don't we? If you can call it from your couch, you can certainly call it from anywhere on the field.

To answer your question, as PU I go when asked regardless of the position my BU is in or the 'handedness' of the batter.

Quick story: Two seasons ago, calling a LL AS Majors game; 3-man system - I'm U1. With no-one on, LH batter checks his swing; F2 asks for a check & PU echoes - to me! F2 actually pointed down the 3B line, but PU came to me out of habit. So, first I'm thinking, "This is not my call; he should go to U3"; then I think, "If I make this call, I'm poaching another umpire's call"; then I think, "I can't show my PU up by not responding or worse, correcting him" I made the call.

PU, me & U3 had a good chuckle about it after the game.

[sdix00]

Except for one already called a strike or they are doing it on obvious ones, I ask no matter which side the batter is on or where my partner is. In OBR, it is required by rule. In FED, the umpire has the option but should.

Sorry I am late to this, but i just remembered that this is another subtle difference in LL.

OBR requires that we go to our partner on a check-swing Ball.

LL "High-recommends". In practice, we do it every time. However, I did have a Rat question me on everything one day. After the third discussion with him, the other team's batter checked his swing. 99% sure he did not go. "Blue, check that!" Shook my head and gave the new count. "BLUE!! You HAVE TO CHECK!!!!!" Called time and told him, I would not check on that pitch. Warned him. He ejected himself a little later in the game.

I secretly suspected he was correct, so I looked it up. Turns out, it's Highly-recommended, but not required. Interesting that they would change this rule for LL. Probably only one reason, for this guy.

OBR

9.02(c ) Comment

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home

plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call

the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.

LL

9.02(a)

Instructor Comment:

 It is customary and highly recommended that the plate umpire check on a half-swing called a “ball†if he/she has doubt.

9.02(c ) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.

Instructor Comment:  Checking with another umpire is not required. No umpire can overrule another umpire.

[AmackNH]

NHRookieBLue,

From reading your OP, it sounds to me as if you believe the position of the bat, the bat head, the batter's hands or wrists have something to do with this call. I say this because in the situations you've described, these specific items/areas can be hard to see.

But - they don't matter. (at least, not very much)

The BU's job in this situation is to rule on whether or not he believes the batter made an attempt to hit the pitch. You can make that ruling from anywhere; hell, we all make that ruling when watching MLB games on TV, don't we? If you can call it from your couch, you can certainly call it from anywhere on the field.

To answer your question, as PU I go when asked regardless of the position my BU is in or the 'handedness' of the batter.

I was actually asking because I had two differing responses to this situation in back to back games. Game 1 my partner (an older guy) tells me "I will only go to you if I think your in position to see something". Apparently I was never in position see anything, LOL. In the second game, bottom of the 1st with me in "C" my partner came to immediately, "DID HE GO". It caught me off gaurd but I responded with what I had..."No he didnt". After reading the responses here and better understanding the requirement to check, I will be ready for it. Thanks guys.

[BillB1960]

Quick story: Two seasons ago, calling a LL AS Majors game; 3-man system - I'm U1. With no-one on, LH batter checks his swing; F2 asks for a check & PU echoes - to me! F2 actually pointed down the 3B line, but PU came to me out of habit. So, first I'm thinking, "This is not my call; he should go to U3"; then I think, "If I make this call, I'm poaching another umpire's call"; then I think, "I can't show my PU up by not responding or worse, correcting him" I made the call.

PU, me & U3 had a good chuckle about it after the game.

I've been the PU in that situation: LL AS Big League game; 3 man. I'm PU with a LH batter and F2 wants a check on what at best could be a flinch. Batter barely got his bat off his shoulder. F2 turns and wants a check but doesn't point. Out of habit I go to U1 even tho' U3 is in position. U1 says, "Yes he did!" I'm gobsmacked but call the strike. Crowd goes nuts. After the game U1 comes up to me and asks, "Why did you come to me it was U3's call? I wasn't even paying attention!" I said, "So why did you call it a strike?" His reply, "Just the first thing that came into my head." :bang:

[mstaylor]

I always say to always check. There are situations not to check. If you have watched the Williamsport tournament the Japanese team will ask on every flinch in every game. When you ask that many times then I am going to start picking when I ask. When I am on the plate and I am sure that he didn't go, I will announce it to that effect with a strong,"No he didn't go!" It is to stop asking when it isn't needed.

[archangel]

What about with a lefty batter and your partner in A?

Had a PU come to me the other day. I safed it. It is possible to call from there but he has to really go pretty far.

If you're a PU and you're mindful enough to realize it in time, do you grant the appeal or make the call? It seems like you would have a better vantage point than someone who can only see the batters back... Assume FED or LL for this.

When working with different umpires, you may run into "older" ones that still believe the asking of a BU on a check swing is attacking the PU's call and is insulting, hence they dont want to ask (Fed).

In my 2nd year, I worked with an experienced official that made it plain in pregame, that if he comes to me, I should say "safe". Thankfully, that much younger me stuck to his guns and responded that "I will call what I see". I teach my students, and tell my BU partners the same thing - its not an ego thing, lets just get the call right.

Many times, as PU, I know my "ball" call was correct, but will still go to BU if asked. I look at it as good game management, and as others have said, theres no harm, and the few seconds to do so doesn't delay the game.

In a non-related way, my most embarrassing moment on the field, was during a check swing appeal to me (BU) early in my career.

Summer HS ball, I'm in A, 2nd inning, school admin is standing near me on other side of fence, asking for info as he is cutting our checks to give us between innings. I'm answering his Q's, mistakenly sometimes looking over at him briefly, between pitches. The next thing I hear is "Did he go?", with me swinging my head to look at PU, then quickly signalling "safe", followed by the appropriate boo's. Except for that, it ended up a smooth, forgettable game.

After the game, PU and I are at our trunks when an old lady came by on a walker and complimented PU on a good game. Forgetting about my error and smiling, I said "what about me?" She pointed a boney finger and said " You, sonny...you dont pay attention"....Busted,.

If there's any good to come from making mistakes, is that we own them from then on....

[Umpy]

OBR

9.02(c ) Comment

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home

plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call

the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.

LL

9.02(a)

Instructor Comment:

 It is customary and highly recommended that the plate umpire check on a half-swing called a “ball†if he/she has doubt.

9.02(c ) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.

Instructor Comment:  Checking with another umpire is not required. No umpire can overrule another umpire.

If PU signals a swinging strike, can it be appealed? If so, and the ball was in the strike zone, does the PU just say "No Appeal, Strike regardless"?

[yawetag]

If PU signals a swinging strike, can it be appealed?

No. Umpiring 101.