JonnyCat

Exactly! What is the point of not calling time? For me it's just one motion. Wait for play to be relaxed, call time while walking out to brush off the plate. Then put ball back in play. Seems like a no-brainer. And it doesn't take any more time at all. I, too, don't know where this notion came from. It's fine with me if you don't want to do it in your games, knock yourself out, but don't tell others not to do it.

Exactly! The only thing we've done is work more games with less people. Virtually nothing has been done to curtail the shortage of officials. I'm looking directly at you, NFHS.

"Northern Kentucky football officials get paid $95 a game. In Southwest Ohio, officials make $90 per game. According to Fick, officials get to a 7 p.m. game around 5:30 p.m., leaving their house at 4:30 or 5 p.m. The game lasts until about 10 p.m., with the official getting home by 11 p.m. at the earliest. The total time commitment of nearly six hours brings the pay rate to just more than minimum wage. Officials are also responsible for their own expenses, including gas, equipment and mandatory classes." Exactly what I have been focusing on for a few years now. As Independent Contractors, your time is door to door. When you factor in the taxes and the above listed expenses, it's LESS than minimum wage. Most of my baseball games are a 4-5 hour commitment. I like all the things they are trying to do to attract more officials, but none of them included more pay and less abuse. You want more sports officials? Pay more, and take concrete steps to curtail the abuse. Period. Anything else, you're just chasing your tail. Where are all the officials?

Yeah, I've read and had that discussion, too. Overly obnoxious umpire: "You don't need to call time when brushing off the plate. It's wastes valuable game time. Don't do it!" Me: "It literally takes one second to call time."

I did the same thing, too. Came up with nothing. With a little bit of research, I also debunked the myth that stickers on the helmet can cause degradation of the plastic and weaken it. Please, they come from the factory with stickers. With almost all the world's information available at your fingertips, it still dumbfounds me how people keep spreading myths. Even with a modicum of research, it takes like 30 seconds to verify or disprove almost anything. BTW, FakeBook is the worst at spreading stupid SH*# that idiots lap up and re-post without ever even thinking to verify the information.

Asking that questions doesn't magically put all the responsibility and liability on you. We only ask that question as a POE for many organizations. We're just double checking, and IMO, it's dumb as hell and not necessary. It's just a reminder to the coaches that their kids need to be properly equipped. That's all. Kind of like reminding them about sportsmanship. Are you going to be liable if a fight breaks out, because you reminded them about sportsmanship? Now if they respond "no", we probably have an issue that needs to be resolved. As long as they say yes, I don't give a F*#K what happens after that. It's the coaches responsibility, and the governing sports body for the safety of their kids. We're there to enforce the rules. I'll enforce things as necessary depending on the issue. I still to this day don't understand where this whole "liability" issue comes from. I have yet to find any evidence, lawsuit, or case study, of any umpire being sued because little Billy got hurt using "illegal" equipment. I'm not saying it has never happened, but I've never found any evidence, nor has anyone ever showed me any.

Absolutely Right! FED is terrible when it comes to these things. Like they're stuck in the 70's!

It's hard to tell, but it looks like U1 is looking at the carom of the ball just as Pham makes that move. He probably didn't see it. Agree with @grayhawk, that would be something I would expect to be called out in MLB.

I always loved that coming out from league board members or coaches. I've heard the term "real baseball" too many times to count. Is it real baseball when your players can barely tie their shoes? Is it real baseball when your kids can barely catch, throw, pitch, and hit the ball? Never understood that line of thinking. I first heard that term from a coach many years ago when I first started coaching. Get this...........from another Tee Ball coach! Actually said we need to be teaching these kids "real baseball" in TEE-BALL! Coach didn't like the rule mods I was proposing. Like everyone bats and has fun. The league rules actually had 6 runs, or 3 outs per inning, in F*#King Tee Ball! (The board took my suggestions and did modify the rules. I later became league president for 5 years and made many other significant changes and improvements to the league that are in place to this day.) The adults are usually the problem. Usually at this level, if you're going to call balks, we call them if they are what's called "elephant balks." The ones that are so obvious, everyone in the stands can see them. We normally wouldn't call technical balks at this level. Yes , the umpire perhaps got butt hurt over your comments and tried to prove a point. I think @beerguy55 has some great points and suggestions moving forward.

Love those shoes for bases! Not my size, otherwise I'd snap them up. Too bad you can't get them anymore.

I don't know why. Why are we so serious about youth sports at that age? Why do we insist on applying adult rules on kids? Is it fun to watch those games? Is it fun for the kids? Or is it for the adults. 10u. There shouldn't be lead-offs. Rules should be tailored for the appropriate age and skill level. This could all be avoided if the adults acted like adults, and didn't live vicariously though the children. Lest I digress. To answer your original question. It's a balk if the umpire calls it. To be fair, you usually aren't going to get the most experienced or quality umpires for 10u. That's just the way it is. NCAA umpires aren't clamoring to work 10u in the off-season. To be fair, you kind of opened that can of worms by questioning, most likely an inexperienced umpire. Perhaps he didn't handle it as well as he should have. Yes, you are correct, the umpire made some mistakes. Probably will continue to do so. Ask yourself, what can you do to close that circle? I've seen too many coaches and parents dwell unnecessarily on the umpires, and in turn, reflects the negativity on to the kids. I've seen other coaches and parents handle it well, keep a positive attitude, and remember to keep it fun for the kids. If you keep it fun, they will continue to play. The number one reason kids drop out of youth sports is because they aren't having fun. And most often, not always, it's the adults that don't make it fun for the kids. I'm not saying you've done any of that, just food for thought. I appreciate you coming on here to get some feedback.

At the MLB level? Immediately, or before the BR reaches 1B, for the most part. Everyone knows whats going on, and nobody is trying, or even able to at that level advance to 2B. This isn't 10u. Agree with Grayhawk. HS and above, all the time. Many times a coach is already walking out, and again, everyone knows what is going on. Below HS levels, depends on the situation, I often will wait until the BR reaches 1st base, and all play is relaxed. You have to know the situation, and the level you are working at. At more experienced levels, you can grant time before they reach 1B. Strictly speaking, yes you are supposed to wait, but you don't always have to.

Sometimes. There are many factors to consider. Sometimes I'll say, "Hey, (catchers name), I missed that one." Sometimes I won't. But it's got to be an obvious miss. If it's a close pitch that maybe I missed, and the catcher asks, I just go with what I called. I.E. "that was out/in/up/down", or "That caught plate/corner." For me it depends on the magnitude/temperature of the game. My rapport with the catcher. How bad the miss is. The level of play I'm working that day. Sometime you can get away with it and the catcher will be cool about it. Other times he just thinks you're an asshole and no matter what you do he won't be happy and think you just suck. It just depends. However, I do think it is okay to admit when you screwed up sometimes.

Yep, that drives me SH*#-house, too! I can see some pitching restrictions, but position players? WTF, just have free substitution.

Why does the manager have to be so upset when coming on to the field? The question should be, why don't they come out calmly and ask for an explanation? I agree that Hunter handled this poorly. But how is coming out with your hair on fire helping your cause? Never understood why managers think they have to come out yelling instead of just asking calmly for an explanation. If they don't like the explanation, then it's their choice to escalate. Baseball's culture needs to change.

I don't assign for an association, but I do help with assignments for my District LL during TOC and All Stars. I'm assuming your talking to fellow umpires who want to know how it's done,or why they aren't getting certain assignments. When asked, I try to be as honest as possible. I tell them why they don't always get the games they want. I let them know the challenges we face, with availability, ability, the teams playing, the possible temperature and/or magnitude of the game, etc. Sometime we want to give opportunities to other umpires, sometimes our seasoned umpires are more suited. Sometimes it's the only bodies we got! Sometimes I need to explain to an umpire that they are not suited for certain games, and give them feedback as how to get those games. In those instances, I try to give them tangible things to work on to better themselves. I just try to be honest and give everyone a fair shake. It doesn't always come across as that to certain people, but you can't please everyone.

I agree with the college umpire. Keep your ball call cadence and timing the same. Also keep the timing the same as your strike calls. The only time I will give a more casual ball call is on something that is so obvious and goes past the catcher. On some of those, especially with no runners on, and while I'm throwing a ball back to the pitcher, I may not say anything at all. If the catcher gloves it, I strive for the same timing and cadence. I'm in the camp of don't try and sell balls calls. Some people advocate that if you want to sell ball calls, then say the location of where the ball missed. I personally don't do that, but am not opposed if someone else does. As long as they don't make a habit of doing it on all calls. YMMV. Mike Winters, who would help teach the new umpires at our HS association once told the students, That if a pitch makes you suck wind, it's probably a strike. I'm not sure if that's what the college ump was alluding to, but maybe those borderline pitches could be grabbed as strikes? I don't know, but maybe food for thought? I'm glad you're willing to examine your game and listen to advice.

When I did San Bernardino in 2022, during the pre-tournament walk-throughs and umpire orientations, they told us if a coach asks, just go straight to review. They told us the replay officials will decide on whether it's re-viewable or not. They didn't want us wasting time getting our crew together. It was fine to get your crew together on things such as, if you had a questions of where a runner was on a ball thrown out of play to get the base award right, things like that. But if a coach would ask, go straight to replay. In fact, you could prompt them as well. "You wanna re-play that?" I'm assuming they taught the coaches in the same manner. It's all about ESPN and keeping the game moving. ESPN likes to keep the games in 2 hour blocks. It's ESPN's show. That much they explicitly told us.

Yes, he was in a terrible position due to the prescribed mechanics. There is no way U2, starting from the B position on the outside, will ever get into the proper position for a play at 3rd. You'll always be looking up the ass-end of that play. Yet, instead of relying on umpires making a better read, and U3 takes that call, LL chooses to dumb down the mechanics, (by their own admission BTW), mostly because of the deficiencies of LL umpires working the bases. See my first post where I explain why LL umpires are often deficient on the bases. After 23 years of working, training, and instructing in the West Region, I've found that most of the LL umpires during the regular season generally work solo. And it's not just here out in the West, it's all over the country. They just don't get enough base work, and rarely ever work 4 man games. So they are just not proficient in working 4 man. Not a criticism, just the way it is. Now, with that being said, out in So Cal, many LL umpires do train in mutli-umpire mechanics. If you want to see some good rotations, check out the games from the West, Northwest, and Mountain Regionals. This year, with the changes LL is making with tournament assignments, those crews over there are quite good. I've worked/trained/instructed with many of them, and they are some very experienced umpires working those games. One guy is the former WR UIC, some are WR instructors, and I believe all of the crew has either prior Regional, and some have WS experience. 2 of the guys were on my 2022 WR crew in San Bernardino. That is a very stacked crew. But even so, with LL's prescribed mechanics, you'll see some holes even with those levels of experience.

The rotations you describe are for runners not in scoring position. In the video, there is R1 and R2. So the PU is locked and is not rotating. In this play, R3 went out, so U2 now covers both plays at 2nd and 3rd. But on that little uncaught flare to left, there's no way U2 is going to be able to get to 3rd for a play, especially when he's starting from B. All that play needs is for U3 to turn around, see that the ball is not caught, and then slide back towards 3rd base to take any possible play. There's no need for a rotation, and frankly, as evidenced by the video, U2, nor even the plate umpire, could ever hope to be in proper position to cover any play at 3rd. Even if you were Usain Bolt!

I forgot to mention, yes they do teach that, as well. In some instances, it can be a good practice, but on the small diamond, that is a mentality that does not need to be adhered to in most instances. LL teaches to go out on every fly ball. No need on line drives, but most fly balls, they want a rotation. It doesn't need to happen on every fly ball, but that is what is taught. More on that later. On deep fly balls to the gaps, which are mostly uncaught, a nice rotation makes sense. The calling umpire goes out, usually farther than on other fly balls, and all the other umpires have time to move into position. Since the calling umpire is usually a bit farther out, the practice of "if you're out, you stay out" works fine. The problem arises on the short fly balls to the outfield. Most of them are hit not very deep. The calling umpire that goes out, may only get one or two steps to wards the play. Often, some umpires merely just turn around. (hence the notion of if I see your back, you are out). Those play happen so fast, the other umpires only get about 2-3 steps themselves, and are in no position, no matter how great the jump, or how fast they are, to complete the rotation and get into proper position for their next area of responsibility. Most often, the calling umpire that went out, remains the closest one to the base they vacated. In the OP's play, that is exactly what happened. On these can of corn plays that anyone in the stands could call, there is no need for the "if you're out, stay out" mentality. Especially when U2 goes out, he can easily grab the catch/no catch, and any subsequent play into 2B. The only thing that would be hard is grabbing the tag up, but the plate umpire has that responsibility, so leave it to him, and no need for silly rotations where many of these umpires can't get into position. PU back-fills any tag up responsibilities at all vacated bases in a rotation anyway. And with closed bases, the calling umpire on a routine fly-ball can easily make the catch/no catch, or out signal, and be in position to make any other advance play into there bag. He's just not moving that far in either direction anyway! In my games with seasoned partners, we'll pre-game this. If I'm a base umpire, with a routine fly ball, I'll often put up a stop sign to my crew-mates, indicating I've got the ball, but there is no need to rotate. I see pro umpires do that in games, and I have adopted that practice when I can. LL methodology doesn't make sense to me with this, but they similarly follow FEDS practice of dumbing down things. I get it, in Regionals and WS, you're usually working with guys that you've never worked with before, and most of those are just not proficient on the bases. LL does this in order to avoid a SH*#show on TV.

Yes, that is what they teach, at least here in the West. And if your back is turned, you went out.

Okay, that looks like the updated mechanics. I haven't seen that manual yet. I started using the new rotations last year when I was working with my friend Dave Miller, helping him prepare for the WS. He was the first one to tell us about the new mechanics that WP wanted. Up until that point, we all had been using the the rotation that U1 would come in and split, with U3 being locked with RISP. Having U3 come in and split does have it's merits on the small diamond. But still, it's just a crap show sometimes with U2 always starting on the outside. The game has really outgrown the 60' bases at the Regional and WS levels. The ball often gets back into the infield so quickly from the outfield, that if U2 doesn't get a good jump or is slow, they never can get inside. In fact, at WR, they discourage U2 coming inside. They prefer taking plays from the outside on balls hit to the outfield. Not sure I agree with that, but it's often been a SH*#show that they had to make some changes. I prefer to get inside as much as possible, but at that level, it's often hard to do.

That's one of the disadvantages of U2 working outside on the 60' diamond. On that particular play, PU is locked because of RISP, U3 goes out on a fly ball coverage. U2 now has multiple base responsibility of 2nd and 3rd. But, U2 also has tag up responsibilities of R2. In a perfect world, U2 would bust inside and shade over towards 3rd for any play there, at the same time keeping an eye on R2 for a tag up. On a big diamond, it's easy to do, because U2 is already inside, just has to turn and all plays are right in front of you. On the small diamond, the play happens so fast, there's hardly a chance U2 is getting inside. Depending on where U2 started, if he started in C, the best he can do is turn towards the ball and keep an eye on R2, and at the same time, maybe start shading towards 3rd for a potential play. But even sliding towards 3rd is risky on the outside, as it makes getting a look at the tag up of R2 difficult, and you may put yourself in the line of a throw back in towards 2nd. If U2 was lucky and started in B and got a good read on the play, he could have busted inside keeping an eye on the tag up. Once the ball hit the ground he could have kept going towards 3rd for the potential play. But you have to get a good read and hustle to get into position. You could also make up some ground after you saw the play at 3rd, by moving towards 3rd when making your call. This would be the ideal way to take that play. LL gives U2 the option of working B or C in a 4 man. But the reality is that most of the umpires you see working LL Regionals and World series, are not that well versed in 4 man mechanics. Most of them rarely do it during the season, they may work a few games with it in All Stars. Most LL umpires work solo or 2 man during the regular season. Honestly, from my experience working 2 Regionals, and instructing and training at LL Western Region, many of the LL umpires I see aren't even well versed in 2 man. They just work mainly solo. Not a criticism, just the way things are. I notice at all the LL Regionals and WS, most are the umpires are good on the plate, but they struggle on the bases. LL is trying to change that, but the base work, IMO, is an area that needs the most improvement. BTW, the 4 man mechanics you'll see in LL Regionals and WS, is slightly different than what is shown in the LL 4 man guide. In the Regionals and WS, U1 is locked and never busts inside to split bases. Or that's what they are moving towards. U3 is supposed to come inside to split if U2 goes out with RISP. Not sure if it is being taught at every Region, but that is what they are teaching now at least from the West.