What is with the bat throwing?

[cyclonehokiece]

Have any of you seen what seems to be a (not statistically proven) increase in careless bat throwing? I have had to give more warnings (has to date always nipped it in the bud, knock on wood) this spring than any other season. Mainly this is youth ball, but I have had to give warnings in HS (mainly softball, but once in baseball). I don't know, just lucky that no one has been severely hurt yet (knock on wood again).

[semper_fi_72]

Have any of you seen what seems to be a (not statistically proven) increase in careless bat throwing? I have had to give more warnings (has to date always nipped it in the bud, knock on wood) this spring than any other season. Mainly this is youth ball, but I have had to give warnings in HS (mainly softball, but once in baseball). I don't know, just lucky that no one has been severely hurt yet (knock on wood again).

Don't know softball, but what are you giving warnings for?

Unless the thrown bat causes some type of Interference on the play, there is nothing you can do.

I have not had or seen a lot of bat throwing as you say.

When I do have someone that throws a bat, in youth ball, I talk to the Coach about it ASAP and let him handle it and correct it.

Don't knock on wood but knock on Aluminum LOL

[JaxRolo]

+1 I agree with Lou! :shrug:

[cyclonehokiece]

Giving warning for a carelessly thrown bat. Safety issue for F2 and for me. This is a warn and eject if done again thing. All safety.

And by give more warnings, I mean, doing it more often (aka seems to be happening in more games).

[dumbdumb]

Have any of you seen what seems to be a (not statistically proven) increase in careless bat throwing? I have had to give more warnings (has to date always nipped it in the bud, knock on wood) this spring than any other season. Mainly this is youth ball, but I have had to give warnings in HS (mainly softball, but once in baseball). I don't know, just lucky that no one has been severely hurt yet (knock on wood again).

Don't know softball, but what are you giving warnings for?

Unless the thrown bat causes some type of Interference on the play, there is nothing you can do.

I have not had or seen a lot of bat throwing as you say.

When I do have someone that throws a bat, in youth ball, I talk to the Coach about it ASAP and let him handle it and correct it.

Don't knock on wood but knock on Aluminum LOL

SPF

You are a good umpire, but please carry this further. What you said is 100% correct, but in the real world where the rest of us live, the kid does the same thing the next time, even after the Coach handles it.

Carry this on out for those of use who are not as competent or lucky or whatever word you care to use as you are.

What if this keeps on happening?? Don't just hang us up with your first statement. Thanks.

[AJtheUMP]

My partner gives warnings and then calls them out the next time. (it has never come to that). I dont say anything unless it interferes, but if it keeps happening and is extreme enough then Ill ask the coach to talk to the kids about it. I make it clear that my concern with it is the safety of the catchers, I figure Ill live through a bruise or two myself. I probably used to get excited when I got a good hit and laid down my bat a little "aggressively" too.

[AJtheUMP]

As an addition after reading dumbs comment, I will hold the coach responsible and possibly restrict him if it continues. These are really HTBT situations.

I dont want to award an out or even an ejection, but part of my plate meeting is about safety. And to me that is the most important thing, especially at the rec ball level.

[bam]

There's nothing you can do!

I think that's what he said, which would eliminate the need to carry it further.

In reality, if the catcher or I get dinged more than once, the conversation will be "Coach, if that cather or I get hit again, your player will be leaving for unsportsmanlike conduct." If he wants to complain, ask him how he'd like to get hit repeatedly by a thrown bat. Or, you can just pick up a bat and throw it at him, and ask him how much funTHAT was (we can dream, can't we?)

[semper_fi_72]

Unless you have a Local Rule (Written by Fools) there is no rule that allows you to warn, call a out or eject for a thrown bat.

I challenge you to find a rule that allows you to award an out.

Even Little League does not have one.

Unless the thrown bat causes Interference with a Catcher or any other fielder making a play on the ball you have nothing.

I do not know where umpires get the idea they can call a batter out or do anything else for a thrown bat.

It does not exist in the rulebook and is one of those myths that is as bad as ones the coaches are always using.

Talk to the coach about it, if necessary.

But we must umpire and need to stay away from coaching.

[bam]

So, Semper, a player strikes out and throws the bat into the stands. If I'm to understand you correctly, you have nothing?

And I'm not awarding an out, I'm ejecting.

[semper_fi_72]

So, Semper, a player strikes out and throws the bat into the stands. If I'm to understand you correctly, you have nothing?

And I'm not awarding an out, I'm ejecting.

LOL

You have an out on the strike out. YES

How did the bat leave his hands?

Did it slip and go into the stands?

I have seen that happen in MLB and the Fan got a souvenir but the player was not ejected.

Did he throw it in anger or disgust?

Then I have a ejection for Un-Sportsman like conduct.

I don't know to many youth fields that a bat is going to make its way into the stands.

The area is pretty well covered with fences.

That is not what the OP was about.

[AJtheUMP]

I have never had a situation where I would need to do anything other then ask the coach to address it for safety. They usually are just excited and when something is said to them they will do their best to stop. I dont like that my partner gives outs or ejections. I understand why he does it, but the kid hit the ball, I dont want to penalize him for that. Besides, as has been pointed out we have to call by the rules.

As an addition after reading dumbs comment, I will hold the coach responsible and possibly restrict him if it continues. These are really HTBT situations.

I dont want to award an out or even an ejection, but part of my plate meeting is about safety. And to me that is the most important thing, especially at the rec ball level.

take my "I dont want to award" to mean "My personal preference is to not award", meaning I dont give outs or ejections.

Unless you have a Local Rule (Written by Fools) there is no rule that allows you to warn, call a out or eject for a thrown bat.

Aren't almost all local rules written by fools? Or is that what you ment? lol.

This is a very enlightening conversation for me.

[JaxRolo]

My partner gives warnings and then calls them out the next time.

Can you please find a rule citation for this?

[AJtheUMP]

My partner gives warnings and then calls them out the next time.

Can you please find a rule citation for this?

Nope, cause we (myself and you) both know its not there. Thats just how he does it. I have discussed it with him and am waiting on the day he gets a protest.

[scrounge]

Unless you have a Local Rule (Written by Fools) there is no rule that allows you to warn, call a out or eject for a thrown bat. I challenge you to find a rule that allows you to award an out. Even Little League does not have one. Unless the thrown bat causes Interference with a Catcher or any other fielder making a play on the ball you have nothing. I do not know where umpires get the idea they can call a batter out or do anything else for a thrown bat. It does not exist in the rulebook and is one of those myths that is as bad as ones the coaches are always using. Talk to the coach about it, if necessary. But we must umpire and need to stay away from coaching.

This isn't true in FED, there is an explicit rule and proscribed penalty in Rule 3 against carelessly throwing a bat (as opposed to causing interference, dealt with separately in Rule 7).

RULE 3, SECTION 3, ART. 1 . . . A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

...

c. carelessly throw a bat;

...

PENALTY: At the end of playing action, the umpire shall issue a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected, except for (f), where the coach shall be ejected. In ( B ), it is also obstruction (8-3-2). I've had this happen once, where the dude just flinged it after swinging. First time I gave him an informal warning "hey, be careful with your bat, ok?". Second time, formal warning and warning to coach. And he did it again on the third at bat. Delayed dead ball, ejection, no out.

[scrounge]

Additionally, here's a case play that explicitly addressed unintentional bat throwing. Again, warning then ejection.

3.3.1 SITUATION V After hitting a line drive toward F5, B1 releases the bat, which strikes F2 or the umpire. The act was judged by the umpire to be (a) intentional or ( B ) unintentional. RULING: In (a) and ( B ), this is a delayed dead-ball situation. In (a), the offender will be ejected from the game. If his fair hit ball is a base hit, he will be replaced with a substitute runner. In ( B ), the umpire will warn the coach of that player's team that the next player on that team to violate the rule shall be ejected from the game.

[cyclonehokiece]

I have asked our rules interpreter about this on youth baseball using modified OBR, and he said using 9.01c, a warning and subsequent ejection for repeat violations is fine. Might be something that has to be decided league by league. This is definitely a problem more for youth baseball, hence why it is probably covered by FED but not by OBR.

[Umpire in Chief]

My partner gives warnings and then calls them out the next time.

Can you please find a rule citation for this?

I have seen this in local rules before, but disagree with it's use

Additionally, here's a case play that explicitly addressed unintentional bat throwing. Again, warning then ejection.

3.3.1 SITUATION V After hitting a line drive toward F5, B1 releases the bat, which strikes F2 or the umpire. The act was judged by the umpire to be (a) intentional or ( B ) unintentional. RULING: In (a) and ( B ), this is a delayed dead-ball situation. In (a), the offender will be ejected from the game. If his fair hit ball is a base hit, he will be replaced with a substitute runner. In ( B ), the umpire will warn the coach of that player's team that the next player on that team to violate the rule shall be ejected from the game.

Excellent for FEDlandia!

Finally as Cyclonehokiece mentioned. 9.01c is a good.

I think one of the important things to remember here is that we're talking about a slung bat, which can be very dangerous. In MLB their focus is not as much on safety. But I cant remember a MLB player slinging a bat to where it hit or hurt a catcher or umpire. If it did hit the catcher we all know where the first pitch is going to be next time he comes up to bat. I've seen slung bats go into the stands, but that is rare and definitely not intentional.

In youth ball while it might not be intentional, but the danger factor is still the same and something which needs to be corrected.

[Mike Prince]

We have a local rule in our Cal RIpken/Babe Ruth assn. that on the first thrown bat both teams are warned and the next infraction is an immediate dead ball and an out.

No I am not the fool that wrote it, but I will enforce it if the bat endangers me or the catcher. Rule has been in our local rulebook for years and 99% of the time the warning works.

[dumbdumb]

Unless you have a Local Rule (Written by Fools) there is no rule that allows you to warn, call a out or eject for a thrown bat.

I challenge you to find a rule that allows you to award an out.

Even Little League does not have one.

Unless the thrown bat causes Interference with a Catcher or any other fielder making a play on the ball you have nothing.

I do not know where umpires get the idea they can call a batter out or do anything else for a thrown bat.

It does not exist in the rulebook and is one of those myths that is as bad as ones the coaches are always using.

Talk to the coach about it, if necessary.

But we must umpire and need to stay away from coaching.

Sorry SPF

I was vague.

I am talking about the one where they continually throw the bat back to "clobber (drill) you and the catcher continually and hard from head to toe", not the one where they throw it a little towards the cutoff behind them or in front of them on either side and doesn't affect the play or endanger anyone.

What do you do with those continual drilling you, done by the same players over and over in the game. Thanks.

[dumbdumb]

Unless you have a Local Rule (Written by Fools) there is no rule that allows you to warn, call a out or eject for a thrown bat.

I challenge you to find a rule that allows you to award an out.

Even Little League does not have one.

Unless the thrown bat causes Interference with a Catcher or any other fielder making a play on the ball you have nothing.

I do not know where umpires get the idea they can call a batter out or do anything else for a thrown bat.

It does not exist in the rulebook and is one of those myths that is as bad as ones the coaches are always using.

Talk to the coach about it, if necessary.

But we must umpire and need to stay away from coaching.

Sorry SPF

I was vague.

I am talking about the one where they continually throw the bat back to "clobber (drill) you and the catcher continually and hard from head to toe", not the one where they throw it a little towards the cutoff behind them or in front of them on either side and doesn't affect the play or endanger anyone.

What do you have if they continually do that?

[noumpere]

I am talking about the one where they continually throw the bat back to "clobber (drill) you and the catcher continually and hard from head to toe", not the one where they throw it a little towards the cutoff behind them or in front of them on either side and doesn't affect the play or endanger anyone.

What do you do with those continual drilling you, done by the same players over and over in the game. Thanks.

It's been answered already and you should warn and then eject. Its covered in HS rules and if you need help at lower levels and local rules talk to the organization.

[MPLSMatt]

Scrounge has it right about FED and I've used it. I had a game of like 12U Rec Ball a few years back and when a certain player got a hit, he drilled F2 right in the chest with his thrown bat. I warned the coach/bench but the next time the kid came up he got a hit and absolutely smoked the catcher again. Our rulebook in that league was strictly FED, so I tossed the kid and had them put someone else on first. Obviously, his parents/coach were all worked up and the other coach was worked up because he wanted an out in addition to the ejection. That's the only time I've had to use that rule but I have no regrets about it. In some of these Rec Leagues these kids are really dangerous with their bats and you have to police it.

[dumbdumb]

I am talking about the one where they continually throw the bat back to "clobber (drill) you and the catcher continually and hard from head to toe", not the one where they throw it a little towards the cutoff behind them or in front of them on either side and doesn't affect the play or endanger anyone.

What do you do with those continual drilling you, done by the same players over and over in the game. Thanks.

It's been answered already and you should warn and then eject. Its covered in HS rules and if you need help at lower levels and local rules talk to the organization.

I am not talking about HS which has a rule for this. I am talking about other ball.

I was waiting for an answer from SPF and what he was going to say to the coach "if necessary", and then what if the coach basically ignores whatever he says. Remember SPF says there is no rule on this, so what is he going to do if each team has 5 kids each that wing the bat and drill him each time, assuming murphy's law that they drill him each and every time and do not miss.

[Typhoon]

Two years ago I was doing the womens U16 provincial championships. On Sat afternoon one of the girls threw her bat and just missed F2 and myself. I spoke to the coach and he said it must have slipped she doesn't normally do that. Next time up she hit the ball again and threw her bat and it caught me on the wrist. My partner came in and said toss her, I said there is no rule under which to do it. Spoke to the coach and he again played dumb. Her next at bat she was called out on strikes. The game was out of hand with her team well ahead when she struck out so draw your own conclusions about that. Anyway I finished the tournament and on the Monday I went to my Dr because it was still swollen. He sent me to the fracture clinic and one of the bones in my wrist was broken. Because of the nature of the break I had to wear a cast for 16 weeks. I never missed an assignment even though I had to use my indicator in my right hand during that time. I really can't remember anyone throwing a bat like that before or since. I might have been able to get rid of her under safety concerns, but I think my way was a little more subtle.