Player Dump

[Astrosdawg07]

16U. Decent baseball at best. Takes pitch a outside corner, I call it. He turns around and says thats a ball! I responded no that pitch was on the corner, get in the box. He responds again no that pitch was a ball and you know it! At this point I told him we were done talking and to get back in the box. He then proceeds to say "whatever dude, that pitch was a ball and your just trying get this game over with!" On a side note the hitter that took his place took the next pitch yard!

[mstaylor]

Some kis just can't self censer, good job.

[Guest]

I do not like the way you handled this, at all.

[dumbdumb]

You could be in this league

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRfMe0cqpMs

[jflores]

After the first comment, "that us enough", the next word out of his mouth and he would've been gone. Too much leash for a player.

[Guest]

Now that I have a chance to elaborate on this...

Holy crap, some of you must have 30 ejections a year with skin this thin...and people say I have a quick trigger.

There is no need to snap at a player who turns around and objects to a strike call in this way. Now, if they want to yell, scream, flap arms around, or draw lines, then we have a different story. Short of any prior incidents, which I have a feeling would have been mentioned here if they had occurred, this is no big deal for crying out loud.

The situation was escalated by the umpire. How do you know, for a fact, that the pitch was over the plate? Telling the player "it was on the corner" now puts you in a position where one of the two of you is wrong, and the player is obviously going to think it is the umpire who is wrong. The umpire's refusal to admit the possibility of error on his part will only make them more irate. How about trying "I had that pitch on the outer third" or even better - "I've been giving that one both ways all day." Heck, you may not even need to say anything at all - just let the dude say his piece and resume play. Or, if you missed it, tell him "hey, my bad...I went too far out on that one." A little humility goes a very long way in terms of garnering respect from players.

Problem #2 is the first order to get back into the box. You order a player into the box for two reasons: 1) they have held up the game protesting a strike call long enough that they are about to be ejected, and by this I mean that unless they step right into the box and shut up once you finish the sentence, they go or 2) they have delayed the game long enough that you are about to call a declared strike on them. You had no reason to tell him to get in the box. This only rattled him further.

Problem #3 is when you didn't eject him for not getting back in the box after you told him to. Not that I agree with the path chosen here, but once you issue an order and that is disobeyed, bye bye.

IMO, definitely a preventable ejection.

[yawetag]

There is no need to snap at a player who turns around and objects to a strike call in this way. Now, if they want to yell, scream, flap arms around, or draw lines, then we have a different story. Short of any prior incidents, which I have a feeling would have been mentioned here if they had occurred, this is no big deal for crying out loud.

How do you know, for a fact, that the pitch was over the plate?

So you routinely allow a batter to turn around and question your calls? Interesting. It was over the plate because I'm the umpire and that's what I judged.

Telling the player "it was on the corner" now puts you in a position where one of the two of you is wrong, and the player is obviously going to think it is the umpire who is wrong. The umpire's refusal to admit the possibility of error on his part will only make them more irate. How about trying "I had that pitch on the outer third" or even better - "I've been giving that one both ways all day."

Isn't this the case on ANY close call? The person it goes against thinks you're wrong, while the person it helped thinks it's right. Both of these comments, using your logic, ALSO puts you in a position where you could be wrong.

Heck, you may not even need to say anything at all - just let the dude say his piece and resume play. Or, if you missed it, tell him "hey, my bad...I went too far out on that one." A little humility goes a very long way in terms of garnering respect from players.

I'm not letting a batter turn around and question a strike call like he did. He's getting a stern warning everytime. It may not be public, but I'm certainly telling him that he isn't to ever turn around and question a call.

I will NEVER admit to missing a pitch, ESPECIALLY to a batter. If you're missing a pitch and having to apologize for it, I'd suggest slowing down your timing at the plate.There are literally hundreds of other ways to garner respect on the field -- and admitting to missing a pitch isn't one of them.

Problem #2 is the first order to get back into the box. You order a player into the box for two reasons: 1) they have held up the game protesting a strike call long enough that they are about to be ejected, and by this I mean that unless they step right into the box and shut up once you finish the sentence, they go or 2) they have delayed the game long enough that you are about to call a declared strike on them. You had no reason to tell him to get in the box. This only rattled him further.

I think he had all right to put him back in the box. The batter steps out, turns around, and makes a statement about the strike. I'm saying "It was a strike. Get back in the box and let's play." I'm saying it sternly but nicely the first time, with my mask on and facing forward. If he says something again, the mask is coming off and I'm looking right at him: "I said it was a strike. Get back in the box and let's play." If he AGAIN argues, he's out.

Definitely an avoidable ejection -- if the batter had shut up and gotten back in the box.

[mstaylor]

Just responding to the "Thiry ejections a year" comment. I have a coach ejection every few years in youth. In HS, I just had one a few weeks ago, the one before it was six years ago. Players get tossed as needed. I still generally don't have more than a few a year, including all levels. I have a reputation that will toss if needed so I rarely have to. Although two years ago I got two in a game with adult baseball.

[HokieUmp]

I'm afraid I need to disagree with this....

There is no need to snap at a player who turns around and objects to a strike call in this way. Now, if they want to yell, scream, flap arms around, or draw lines, then we have a different story. Short of any prior incidents, which I have a feeling would have been mentioned here if they had occurred, this is no big deal for crying out loud.

The situation was escalated by the umpire. How do you know, for a fact, that the pitch was over the plate? Telling the player "it was on the corner" now puts you in a position where one of the two of you is wrong, and the player is obviously going to think it is the umpire who is wrong.

And that's different from any other game, how? Look, to any player that actually even thinks about an umpire in a game, as opposed to being indifferent, it's going to be a negative opinion. Because Lord knows our only job is 'keep a player down.'

How I know it was over the plate is because I judged it to be that way. It's a pretty simple concept, and it's why we do cage work and stuff like that.

The only thing I would have said different would have just been to respond: "That was a good pitch." That's what my school trained, and it keeps you out of the need to describe the exact location of a pitch, which is saying too much.

And for me, there's an age thing. I'm nearly 46, and I'm just not going to let some teenager think he can say what he wants. He can ask a question, same as any other participant, and can state an opinion, but if he says "that's a ball," and I reply it was a good pitch, that'd better it all. And yes, I'll tell a player to get back in the box. I had some 12U AAU kid not like a strike, and try to tell me about it. i said it was a good pitch, but he continued to stare back at me. I made sure he was aware the pitches were coming from the other direction, and he'd better quickly focus his attention there. Sorry, but a 12-year-old - no matter how tall and grown-up he thinks he is - is going to act like an ass to me. Not without getting a face-full in return - depending on the severity of his "crime,' that is. (A 16-ish player might get more rope, but not THAT much more.)

The umpire's refusal to admit the possibility of error on his part will only make them more irate.

Why do we care if he's irate?

I'm surprised to see you write that, because you don't strike me as one of the "self-hating umpires" I see on the interwebs. Why oh why is there a need to admit the possibility of error here? He had a good pitch, he made and owned his call. There's no requirement that a player has to LIKE a call. And if they want to be irate, they can. Maybe they'll play better mad; maybe they'll play worse; maybe they'll have no self-control and get run. You deal with that as needed.

[mstaylor]

How do I know if it was across the plate? I know it is across the plate because I am trained to know that. If I say it is a strike then it is. I don't give location but if he objuects I tell him it's been there all day. I had a 9/10 kid a couple of years ago step out and ask if I was crazy. I could not believe a kid that young had the balls to ask. He hasn't seen enough to have a clue and there is no way a kid is going to play MLB so I told him if he wished stay he needed to get in the box and bat.

I am not discussing the merits of my strikezone with a batter. I may tell a catcher that I missed one but not a batter. Now if he asks up, out, top of zone, no problem.

[yawetag]

I may tell a catcher that I missed one but not a batter.

I misspoke when I said I'll NEVER admit to missing a pitch. I've done it twice in my short career, and both to Varsity catchers were doing a good job. One was a curve that surprised the hell out of me (first one, and it was the 5th inning). The second was an inside strike when the batter was leaning in.

In both, I told the catcher after the at-bat that I missed them. Both times, they seemed to understand.

[carolinablue]

I have admitted it to catchers a couple of times as well. Always after the AB was over. I said something like, " I missed that 2-2 pitch'"

[Astrosdawg07]

Now that I have a chance to elaborate on this...

Holy crap, some of you must have 30 ejections a year with skin this thin...and people say I have a quick trigger.

Not even close, 2 all year. Both have been players. The 1st one was as no brainer with the batter flinging his bat into the backstop. Trust me, this kid had to go. The coach even told me he was glad I dumped the kid, saying he would have absolutely done the same.

[moblue]

Good ejection. The player should never have said anything to begin with, but the second time he most certainly should have stopped at "Whatever, dude."

[mtnump]

After the first comment, "that is enough", the next word out of his mouth and he would've been gone. Too much leash for a player.

+1!!!

I am not looking for ejections but I do not tolerate arguing balls and strikes, especially from a player. :wave:

[catoblue]

There is no need to snap at a player who turns around and objects to a strike call in this way. Now, if they want to yell, scream, flap arms around, or draw lines, then we have a different story. Short of any prior incidents, which I have a feeling would have been mentioned here if they had occurred, this is no big deal for crying out loud.

in the OP it appears that the batter stepped out and argued the call - he gets a single "that's enough". That's the amount of leash I'm giving a 16 year old.

The situation was escalated by the umpire. How do you know, for a fact, that the pitch was over the plate? Telling the player "it was on the corner" now puts you in a position where one of the two of you is wrong, and the player is obviously going to think it is the umpire who is wrong. The umpire's refusal to admit the possibility of error on his part will only make them more irate. How about trying "I had that pitch on the outer third" or even better - "I've been giving that one both ways all day." Heck, you may not even need to say anything at all - just let the dude say his piece and resume play. Or, if you missed it, tell him "hey, my bad...I went too far out on that one." A little humility goes a very long way in terms of garnering respect from players.

"it was on the corner" was definitely the wrong response, but so are any of the others listed here. The only correct response to "That was a ball and you know it" is "that is arguing balls and strikes, that's enough". This is the point to take control and let the kid know that arguing balls and strikes is NOT going to happen. Forget telling him where it was, or the "I've been giving that one both ways all day" nonsense, and the LAST thing you should do on a called strike is say something like "hey, my bad...I went too far out on that one." You will get eaten alive!

Problem #2 is the first order to get back into the box. You order a player into the box for two reasons: 1) they have held up the game protesting a strike call long enough that they are about to be ejected, and by this I mean that unless they step right into the box and shut up once you finish the sentence, they go or 2) they have delayed the game long enough that you are about to call a declared strike on them. You had no reason to tell him to get in the box. This only rattled him further.

in the OP, the "get back in the box", is simply another way to say "that's enough" or "this conversation is over". All three are different ways to tell the batter that he's had all the leash he's going to get, and another tug on the leash will eliminate him from the game. If he's either too dense to get the point, or just being a punk, then he'll hand you his ticket so you can punch it for him.

Problem #3 is when you didn't eject him for not getting back in the box after you told him to. Not that I agree with the path chosen here, but once you issue an order and that is disobeyed, bye bye.

abso-freaking-lutely!