Quick pitching and eye contact with batter

[Fourth Out]

I have a question about when the pitcher can deliver a pitch. My nephew plays in a Cal Ripken Majors Division league. I think it's U12. I'm pretty sure that's the age range. Last night the umpire called a no-pitch twice on both team's pitchers, stopping them both from coming to the plate, citing that the pitcher must make eye contact with the batter before coming to the plate. The coach from the opposing team told the umpire that the last time they played (against a different team, not my nephew's) the previous umpire said the batter needed to be ready to swing as soon as he stepped in the box and that the pitcher was under no obligation to wait for him. This umpire in my nephew's game last night said that he didn't care what any other umpire said, and he repeated out loud for both teams to hear that the pitchers needed to make eye contact with the batter before coming to the plate. I don't remember this rule from when I played, which, granted, was a long time ago on a baseball field far, far away, but it seemed odd.

My question is, when can the pitcher go into his delivery? Does he have to wait for the batter? I know the rules are slightly different at the pro and college levels, but is there some "fairness" or "safety" clause in Cal Ripken or Little League that the pitcher needs to wait some period of time before he delivers? The coach of the opposing team told the umpire last night that he actually preferred the eye contact rule, but he also made a point of the fact that two umpires were in clear contradiction to each other, which I completely understand. I wanted to ask the umpire about it after the game, but as soon as the game ended, he grabbed his water bottle and left the field, and I guess this league doesn't like people communicating with umpires before or after games anyway. It was a little bit of a heated contest, nothing got out of hand, but there were some calls that not everyone agreed with, surprise, surprise, and these no-pitch calls were somewhat out of the ordinary.

[Tog Gee]

8 minutes ago, Fourth Out said:

[he said] the pitcher was under no obligation to wait for him

The opposite is true.

 

 

[Richvee]

First off, this is a safety issue. At no level do I want the pitcher delivering the pitch when the batter is getting set in the box and not alert to the pitcher. 

There are rules in place in OBR and NCAA now, that require the batter to be alert to the pitcher before he begins a wind up, or begins to come set. Even FED, at the very least, requires pitchers to simulate taking a sign from the catcher before delivering.

Personally, I have adopted the NCAA rue of the pitcher must wait for the batter to be ready, and alert to the pitcher in the box, before the pitcher may begin coming set or starting his windup in all my games across all codes. I've only had one jackwagon coach tell me his pitcher can pitch the moment the batter steps in the box. I simply told him its a safety issue, and your batters will get the same courtesy. 

[Velho]

1 minute ago, Richvee said:

Personally, I have adopted the NCAA rue of the pitcher must wait for the batter to be ready, and alert to the pitcher in the box, before the pitcher may begin coming set or starting his windup in all my games across all codes.

I'm beginning this crusade as well. It's been going so-so with the 11-12yr olds.

2 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I've only had one jackwagon coach tell me his pitcher can pitch the moment the batter steps in the box. I simply told him its a safety issue

Same. And that was his argument after I identified it as a safety issue. Kept pushing until I gave a hard "NO" for everyone to hear. That finally got him to move on (all this on a LL field 🙄)

[Velho]

49 minutes ago, Fourth Out said:

I know the rules are slightly different at the pro and college levels, but is there some "fairness" or "safety" clause in Cal Ripken or Little League that the pitcher needs to wait some period of time before he delivers?

To be explicit: the rule is the same at all levels of play.

When the batter gets penalized differs by level, e.g. 8 seconds on the pitch clock for NCAA & Pro.

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Same. And that was his argument after I identified it as a safety issue. Kept pushing until I gave a hard "NO" for everyone to hear. That finally got him to move on (all this on a LL field 🙄)

 

IMO, a coach who is arguing against both safety and fair play is not long for this game.  

[Richvee]

26 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

IMO, a coach who is arguing against both safety and fair play is not long for this game.  

Or, just a jack wagon 

[Coach Carl]

Cal Ripken uses Major League rules (OBR) as a base and modifies it for youth play.

The rule that the umpire is using is under "pitcher illegal action" (6.02 in OBR).

Under 6.02(a)(5), it is a balk if the pitcher makes an illegal pitch.  In the comment it mentions "quick pitch":

Rule 6.02(a)(5) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter’s box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

It appears that umpire was using "eye contact" as a standard for judging that the batter is "reasonably set".  This is the NCAA rule but not required in OBR.   If that is what he wants to see and he is applying it consistently then there shouldn't be any beef from the teams.

Note that the umpire is stopping the pitcher before he throws.  He is not letting it get to the point where he needs to call a balk or illegal pitch.  Because of the safety aspect of the rule, that is good preventative umpiring.  

Note also, that the rule states "reasonably set".  Judging reasonably set "as soon as he steps in the box" is, well, unreasonable.  

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, Fourth Out said:

citing that the pitcher must make eye contact with the batter before coming to the plate.

@Richvee covered everything well, as usual. I just wanted to comment on the statement above. It's not the pitcher that needs to make eye contact, it's that the batter needs to be looking at the pitcher.

 

5 hours ago, Velho said:

When the batter gets penalized differs by level, e.g. 8 seconds on the pitch clock for NCAA & Pro.

It's more about when the pitcher gets penalized. Not sure for pro, but in NCAA, there is one warning per pitcher (and a reset with runners on). A ball is added to the count for subsequent offenses by that pitcher.

[Richvee]

3 hours ago, grayhawk said:

 

It's more about when the pitcher gets penalized. Not sure for pro, but in NCAA, there is one warning per pitcher (and a reset with runners on). A ball is added to the count for subsequent offenses by that pitcher.

I think I’ve added more balls to counts for this than time violations this year. 

[grayhawk]

17 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I think I’ve added more balls to counts for this than time violations this year. 

I haven't issued too many balls this year, but a few warnings for sure. I did have a situation where I DIDN'T issue a warning. Lead off hitter for a D2 team thinks he's Juan Soto in the box. He gets in the box and leans way over towards the pitcher and looks at him. The pitcher starts his windup and the batter complains that he wasn't ready to hit. The pitch was a strike. I tell him he's looking right at the pitcher and he wants to argue with me. I tell him he can argue or he can play baseball, but he can't do both. Next one is a beautiful pitch on the outside corner and I give a little extra "oompf" on my K3 call. Sit the F down, skippy. You ain't Juan Soto.

[The Man in Blue]

9 hours ago, Richvee said:

Or, just a jack wagon 

 

Both things can be true.

[beerguy55]

13 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Sit the F down, skippy. You ain't Juan Soto.

This should be part of your mechanic.

[The Man in Blue]

7 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

This should be part of your mechanic.

We'll ask Laz Diaz to perfect it.