Pickoff Play

[BigBlue4u]

I would appreciate any comments on this:

With R1 and R3, the pitcher straddles the pitcher’s plate, but it appears to the offensive team he is actually on the plate but he is not. He looks in to get a sign from the catcher and then: 

a. quickly turns and picks off R1 or 

b. quickly turns and feints a throw to first and then quickly turns and picks off R3.

 

[MadMax]

Is he ever engaged to the rubber (pitcher’s plate)? If no, then he’s still a fielder. And, the only other rule affected by this is in regards to the HBT – if he’s in possession of the (Live) ball, then he’s not in violation of that rule. So either you (as Umpire) have him engaged (to the rubber), or you don’t – it is inconsequential if the offensive team “thinks” or “believes” he is. 

Besides this, NFHS ensconced it into the rules that a pitcher can take and decipher signs off the rubber, provided he engages to the rubber and peers in for an adjudged moment so as to allow the batter to be ready, prior to coming set and/or pitching. If F1 isn’t engaged yet, then he’s under no obligation to engage, wait (peer in), and come set. He can perform any number of feints, chases, or throws while as a fielder. If and when he engages, then he’s under pitching restrictions (diluted as they are in NFHS). 

So, it all hinges upon if-&-when he engages to the rubber. And, you (as Umpire) are the validator of that, not the offensive team. 

Now, if it’s difficult to see, then best practice (as a BU) is to walk over to the mound and foot-swipe over the rubber so it’s visible. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it doesn’t have to be pristine (like you softballeers are apt to do, with your mini-brushes); just visible. Most youth will thank you for it. If the rare one protests, then stress that you (as Umpire) need to be able to see it, and leave it at that. 

[The Man in Blue]

@MadMax . . . cleaning the pitcher's plate is a SOFTBALL THING!!!!!   🙄  (Yes, I had a partner tell me that.)

I do agree there is a purpose and cause, and this is it.  Where it gets even more troublesome is the turf field that does not have a pitcher's plate that is above grade.  It is a painted on rectangle that cannot accurately be seen from a distance.  I've been in that position, but fortunately never had THIS situation arise.  Typically the 1BC is yelling at the runner to keep him aware.

I would contend that if he "makes a movement naturally associated with his pitch" (to give an appearance of being engaged and preparing to pitch), then he would be in violation of 2-2-5. 

It is a bit fuzzy as to what would have to be, and I am sure I will get push back on this theoretical.  I am trying to talk through this and contemplate what that would look like.  Would taking a position that he normally takes (e.g., leaning in, ball held behind his back, glove hand resting on his knee or in front of his face) meet this threshold if he normally goes into his motion from there?

 

You can argue that is not a movement, however he had to move to get to that position . . . and I can't see a movement to come out of that position that doesn't look like he is going into the stretch.

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

@MadMax . . . cleaning the pitcher's plate is a SOFTBALL THING!!!!!   🙄  (Yes, I had a partner tell me that.)

I do agree there is a purpose and cause, and this is it.  Where it gets even more troublesome is the turf field that does not have a pitcher's plate that is above grade.  It is a painted on rectangle that cannot accurately be seen from a distance.  I've been in that position, but fortunately never had THIS situation arise.  Typically the 1BC is yelling at the runner to keep him aware.

I would contend that if he "makes a movement naturally associated with his pitch" (to give an appearance of being engaged and preparing to pitch), then he would be in violation of 2-2-5. 

It is a bit fuzzy as to what would have to be, and I am sure I will get push back on this theoretical.  I am trying to talk through this and contemplate what that would look like.  Would taking a position that he normally takes (e.g., leaning in, ball held behind his back, glove hand resting on his knee or in front of his face) meet this threshold if he normally goes into his motion from there?

 

You can argue that is not a movement, however he had to move to get to that position . . . and I can't see a movement to come out of that position that doesn't look like he is going into the stretch.

I let pitchers as in your pic do that and most will slide forward to engage. If, not engaged, there is any upward motion to a stretch I balk it as a motion naturally associated with his pitch. I am "stretching" the rule but on the rare occasions it has happened I have not been questioned.

[Richvee]

 

Another example of FED confusing things by combining several provisions/illegal acts into one rule and separating them by comas and “or” statements. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I don't know if this an official mechanic, but in 2-man we typically spend a bit of the game in the B and C position. Why not take advantage of this? If I am U1 in 2-man, I tell my partner in pre-game...When you see me start to move to hands on knees set? It means I have F1 engaged with the rubber. If I come out of hands on knees set and or are in any other position? I do not have F1 engaged.

~Dawg 

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I don't know if this an official mechanic, but in 2-man we typically spend a bit of the game in the B and C position. Why not take advantage of this? If I am U1 [sic] in 2-man, I tell my partner in pre-game...When you see me start to move to hands on knees set? It means I have F1 engaged with the rubber. If I come out of hands on knees set and or are in any other position? I do not have F1 engaged.

Not official, but certainly taught and drilled. 

I started doing this in 2011, but without reason. Perhaps it was inspired? Figured out? Encouraged by mentors? Then, it was reinforced in 2015 when I attended MLBU Day Camp, and then further reinforced at 2018 OUTS and 2019 UPC. 

It’s now become second nature and habitual, and something pointed out by colleagues, using me as an example, to new umpires. I won’t say “simple”; I’ll say “fundamental”. 
Whether I’m BU inside, or U1 at B-deep (3-man), or U3 at B-deep or C, or D w/ R3 (3-man), or U2 inside (4 or 6-man), I always am upright when F1 is not engaged, or HOK-ready when F1 is engaged. 
 

U1 w/ R1 held by F3 is a different scenario. I’m trusting that my U2/U3 is performing the same fundamentals as I do, but as U1, my use of HOK is enacted / triggered by the departure from the bag by R1, “sliding open the window” 🪟, so to speak. It is not dictated by the F1’s engagement. 

[jimurrayalterego]

4 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Not official, but certainly taught and drilled. 

I started doing this in 2011, but without reason. Perhaps it was inspired? Figured out? Encouraged by mentors? Then, it was reinforced in 2015 when I attended MLBU Day Camp, and then further reinforced at 2018 OUTS and 2019 UPC. 

It’s now become second nature and habitual, and something pointed out by colleagues, using me as an example, to new umpires. I won’t say “simple”; I’ll say “fundamental”. 
Whether I’m BU inside, or U1 at B-deep (3-man), or U3 at B-deep or C, or D w/ R3 (3-man), or U2 inside (4 or 6-man), I always am upright when F1 is not engaged, or HOK-ready when F1 is engaged. 
 

U1 w/ R1 held by F3 is a different scenario. I’m trusting that my U2/U3 is performing the same fundamentals as I do, but as U1, my use of HOK is enacted / triggered by the departure from the bag by R1, “sliding open the window” 🪟, so to speak. It is not dictated by the F1’s engagement. 

Evan’s taught HOK when engaged in a 2006 Desert Classic I attended. 

[Replacematt]

18 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Evan’s taught HOK when engaged in a 2006 Desert Classic I attended. 

Wendy's still does.

[834k3r]

On 2/8/2025 at 1:18 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

I don't know if this an official mechanic, but in 2-man we typically spend a bit of the game in the B and C position. Why not take advantage of this? If I am U1 in 2-man, I tell my partner in pre-game...When you see me start to move to hands on knees set? It means I have F1 engaged with the rubber. If I come out of hands on knees set and or are in any other position? I do not have F1 engaged.

~Dawg 

This is my personal mechanic as well--but for whatever reason had never considered it to pre-game it. I certainly will now--especially with newer partners/umpires.