Slide or avoid

[Clint]

When do you enforce the rule listed below?

Slide and Avoid

Base runners are expected to slide or avoid collisions.  If, in the view of the umpire, a base runner does not slide or avoid a collision when there is a play on him, he will be called out.  Malicious “plowing” of a defensive player will result in ejection from the game and could result in suspension of the offending player for the next game.

**in 10u travel ball, this rule was being enforced. If there is a ball being thrown to home plate, and the runner crosses the plate a split second before the ball gets there, does this rule still take effect and the runner being called out for not avoiding a potential collision? Or does the ball have to beat the runner to enforce the slide or avoid rule ?

What about a play at 2nd base? We had a runner run and stand straight on the bag (he was called out cause the ball beat him there) but  the runner going to first was not called out. Wouldn't that be interference? Even if the batter was safe by a long shot running through first base?

 

[JonnyCat]

What rule-set is this from? Is it a local rule, or specific to the travel league?

If it's a local rule, then you'd have to get clarification from the league or organization.

I don't believe what you quoted is a rule in OBR , FED, or LL.

[Umpy]

I think the ruleset does matter here.  The Little League rule (7.08 a.3.) reads the runner is out if "the runner does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag"

[Clint]

Jonnycat it is a local rule . I will have to ask them next time, thank you.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Honestly @Clint your question in red is a bit rhetorical...

An umpire doesn't have a "choice" about "when to enforce" a rule. Obviously, there is judgement of some kind on most plays and we commonly have discussions here on the forum and amongst our local brothers about "what do you have on this kind of play"?

In your case, like many cases brought to us here on this forum, we are operating on the OP's (your) description without any video footage. And that's perfectly ok...as indicated above once you clarify the basis of this rule you have cited, its origin and your general ruleset you operate from, we'll "rule" on the question.

For practical purposes, there are three things on any play...1) The facts of the play...what happened 2) The applicable rule(s) 3) The umpire's judgement

Yes, our strike zone judgement is different on a 9U fall game with the score 9-0 than it is in the NCAA final...and it should be. But, generally the rules guide the umpires about what call to make according to what the umpire observes without much "when or when not to call something"...

~Dawg 

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Clint said:

Jonnycat it is a local rule . I will have to ask them next time, thank you.

Yes, since it is a local rule, we can't really provide any official guidance or interpretations. Asking what they want may or may not get you answer, though.

That's the issue with local rules. Often they are put in place with good intentions, but there's usually never any guidance to the "what ifs". Most rule-sets have interpretation manuals that further clarify how to treat certain situations. Sadly, you generally don't get that with local rules.

IMO, the best rule-set for youth baseball would be to follow FED rules. They are big on safety, have many interpretations, and a lot of umpires are familiar with that rule-set.

[jimurrayalterego]

To sum up the thread: "Local rules, local fools."

[Jay R.]

21 hours ago, Clint said:

Jonnycat it is a local rule . I will have to ask them next time, thank you.

I did a lot of Little League (which has explanatory material and not a lot of local rule options) in northern Virginia, but have switched to PONY baseball and USA Softball in leagues since moving back to southwestern PA. Both baseball and softball locally are heavy on rules mods, and there's inevitably something about a requirement to slide (in addition to USA Softball's "crash" rule). 

After conversations with several board members and umpire coordinators in various leagues, I de facto call it with the Little League guidance in mind. 

It is helpful to remember that the catcher can't block the runner's access by awaiting the throw on the plate. If the runner runs into them while they're standing on the plate, the answer is probably "obstruction" or "nothing."

[834k3r]

Our local LL implemented a rule that the runner must slide at home if there's play being made at the plate.

It seemed coaches complained every time a runner crossed the plate without sliding--some coaches whined more than others. I asked our local LL UIC to change the rule to something less vague, but guess what rule hasn't changed?

Guess who's no longer doing LL (for myriad reasons) and no longer cares about the rule with the massive gray area?

[Aging_Arbiter]

On 10/24/2024 at 5:35 PM, 834k3r said:

Our local LL implemented a rule that the runner must slide at home if there's play being made at the plate.

It seemed coaches complained every time a runner crossed the plate without sliding--some coaches whined more than others. I asked our local LL UIC to change the rule to something less vague, but guess what rule hasn't changed?

Guess who's no longer doing LL (for myriad reasons) and no longer cares about the rule with the massive gray area?

If you in fact have a LL that is chartered through Williamsport, your league cannot "implement" a must slide rule.  Page 72 of the RIM

[834k3r]

18 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

If you in fact have a LL that is chartered through Williamsport, your league cannot "implement" a must slide rule.  Page 72 of the RIM

Oh, I've pointed that out. Another shortcoming of our board is we they don't have a Player Agent on the board. It's a hot mess, and I'm kinda glad I'm done with it.

[Aging_Arbiter]

5 hours ago, 834k3r said:

Oh, I've pointed that out. Another shortcoming of our board is we they don't have a Player Agent on the board. It's a hot mess, and I'm kinda glad I'm done with it.

Here is how I pointed it out to my LL board years ago..  I informed them that being in violation BY MODIFYING 7.08 (a) 3 that they are putting their charter in jeopardy of being suspended or revoked.  Should an incident occur, and it the charter be revoked, the LL provided insurance goes away too.  This would leave the league paying for any insurance claims/hospitalization, etc. as well as open them up for liability lawsuits.

 

YMMV