Sacrifice fly

[George heard]

Grandson’s 9U baseball tournament yesterday

1 out bases loaded 

Grandson playing CF makes great running leaping catch in Rc

Runner on 3rd tags up and crosses homeplate

Grandson throws to unoccupied 2nd base for 3rd out

Does the run count from the runner who was on 3rd base?

[Velho]

To clarify: the throw was to 2nd base to get the runner on first at time of the pitch for not tagging up after the catch?

If so, this is a "time play". If the runner from third (what we call "R3") touched home before the appeal at second base (to get R2 out for not retouching), the run counts. If not, then no run scores.

Which came first is a judgment call by the home plate umpire.

 

[beerguy55]

To further clarify - a "left early on a catch" appeal is NOT a force play... getting a runner out by touching the base does not make it a force play.

 

[834k3r]

13 hours ago, Velho said:

To clarify: the throw was to 2nd base to get the runner on first at time of the pitch for not tagging up after the catch?

If so, this is a "time play". If the runner from third (what we call "R3") touched home before the appeal at second base (to get R2 out for not retouching), the run counts. If not, then no run scores.

Which came first is a judgment call by the home plate umpire.

 

To me, it's unclear if the attempt was to retire R2 or R1 (designations at TOP).

If R1 wasn't to 2B yet and was out that would be a force out, would it not?

If the throw to 2B was to retire R2 for leaving early that would be a time play.

Maybe I just don't understand the OP scenario.

[beerguy55]

2 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

To me, it's unclear if the attempt was to retire R2 or R1 (designations at TOP).

If R1 wasn't to 2B yet and was out that would be a force out, would it not?

If the throw to 2B was to retire R2 for leaving early that would be a time play.

Maybe I just don't understand the OP scenario.

Well since F8 caught the ball there's no force.

So, my assumption is the play at second is an appeal of R2 who failed to tag up.

He COULD tag R1, if they left early and are standing on second base, but I don't think that's what was meant.

[Velho]

12 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

So, my assumption is the play at second is an appeal of R2 who failed to tag up.

That was my assumption. OP @George heard can clarify.

[noumpere]

18 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

 

So, my assumption is the play at second is an appeal of R2 who failed to tag up.

He COULD tag R1, if they left early and are standing on second base, but I don't think that's what was meant.

And, it doesn't matter -- it's still an appeal and a time play, not a force out.

[Coach Carl]

It may be helpful to consider the rule (OBR 5.08) to run through the scenario.  The last comment after the definition of FORCE applies to the OP.

5.08 How a Team Scores

(a)

One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

R3 scored before the third out was made so it counts unless the out made at 2B was covered under one of the exceptions.   Running through the exceptions, we see that none of them apply.  Exception (1) does not apply because the batter was the second out on the catch by F8.  Exception (2) does not apply because the force was removed once the catch was made (see definition of FORCE).  Exception (3) does not apply because there were no preceding runners to R3 (let alone one who was declared out).

Definitions of Terms:

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

(Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play.

Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter-runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag-out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score.

Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

In the OP:  If, in the umpires judgment, the runner from third touched home before the out was made at second base, the run counts.

[BigBlue4u]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:28 AM, 834k3r said:

To me, it's unclear if the attempt was to retire R2 or R1 (designations at TOP).

If R1 wasn't to 2B yet and was out that would be a force out, would it not?

If the throw to 2B was to retire R2 for leaving early that would be a time play.

Maybe I just don't understand the OP scenario.

You don't.  You can't have a force play on a caught fly ball.