Balks, oh ya

[Umpire942]

- if a pitcher is in the set position comes together hands at his waste, but (does the opposite) and goes straight to a high set (without stopping) is that not a balk?  Obviously if he stops its a balk. Thats what i saw as PU.  He then did it again and i didnt see a stop again.  Finally he just came to one set.   Post game my  veteran partner says hes allowed "two pumps" .  He did agree with if he stopped it would have been a balk. 

 

- from stretch pitcher looks in at signs , starts the stretch to come set but then goes back down to look at signs again.   sometimes its very subtle too. where the foot might not move but body did.

 

- pitchers coming to stretch, but walking a ladder.  Sometimes its 2 sometimes, its 4 (stop and starts)  I dont have this as a balk, but as a runner is that not deceiving? I know as umpires thats not how we are to say or think that way.  But right now im thinking as a runner.

 

 

[Jimurray]

28 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

- if a pitcher is in the set position comes together hands at his waste, but (does the opposite) and goes straight to a high set (without stopping) is that not a balk?  Obviously if he stops its a balk. Thats what i saw as PU.  He then did it again and i didnt see a stop again.  Finally he just came to one set.   Post game my  veteran partner says hes allowed "two pumps" .  He did agree with if he stopped it would have been a balk. 

 

- from stretch pitcher looks in at signs , starts the stretch to come set but then goes back down to look at signs again.   sometimes its very subtle too. where the foot might not move but body did.

 

- pitchers coming to stretch, but walking a ladder.  Sometimes its 2 sometimes, its 4 (stop and starts)  I dont have this as a balk, but as a runner is that not deceiving? I know as umpires thats not how we are to say or think that way.  But right now im thinking as a runner.

 

 

Just watch the CWS. If you have a stop at the end of all their shenanigans and don’t see a feint in the process don’t balk it. 

[Richvee]

I had a kid doing this. Offensive coach wanted a balk. F1 would start the stretch, bring his hands together at the chest, without a stop continue down to the belt, bounce  up and stop at the letters. That’s all fine. one stop 

of course, a few pitches later, he brings the hands together, goes down to the belt, stops, then comes up to the letters and stops again. I balk that. Double set. . Now I’ve got his coach telling me I let the other coach talk me into the balk call. 🙄
 

Taking a sign, starting to come up into the stretch, then going back down to look in for another sign is a start/ stop balk. The amount of start/ stop movement should be judged by level. I’m not gonna balk a flinch from a 13 year old like I would a HS Varsity pitcher   

They can “ step” into a set while stretching. As long as something keeps moving it through the “ steps” and there’s a stop at the end. And no, he doesn’t have to take the same amount of “steps climbing the ladder” each time 

[maven]

17 hours ago, Umpire942 said:

- if a pitcher is in the set position comes together hands at his waste, but (does the opposite) and goes straight to a high set (without stopping) is that not a balk?  Obviously if he stops its a balk. Thats what i saw as PU.  He then did it again and i didnt see a stop again.  Finally he just came to one set.   Post game my  veteran partner says hes allowed "two pumps" .  He did agree with if he stopped it would have been a balk. 

Two points that have yet to be mentioned. First, the set (when it finally comes) must be at the chin or below (at least for FED). I recommend not being picky about this—any part of the mitt near the chin as broadly defined as we like.

Second, the "two pumps" business is in the book under the windup, not the set.

[Umpire942]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Two points that have yet to be mentioned. First, the set (when it finally comes) must be at the chin or below (at least for FED). I recommend not being picky about this—any part of the mitt near the chin as broadly defined as we like.

Second, the "two pumps" business is in the book under the windup, not the set.

When he said two pumps, thats what I thought he was referring to but lost me.  Baybe he means the "up and down to belt, up and down to belt" action if continuous would not be a balk

[Umpire942]

15 hours ago, Richvee said:

I had a kid doing this. Offensive coach wanted a balk. F1 would start the stretch, bring his hands together at the chest, without a stop continue down to the belt, bounce  up and stop at the letters. That’s all fine. one stop 

of course, a few pitches later, he brings the hands together, goes down to the belt, stops, then comes up to the letters and stops again. I balk that. Double set. . Now I’ve got his coach telling me I let the other coach talk me into the balk call. 🙄
 

Taking a sign, starting to come up into the stretch, then going back down to look in for another sign is a start/ stop balk. The amount of start/ stop movement should be judged by level. I’m not gonna balk a flinch from a 13 year old like I would a HS Varsity pitcher   

They can “ step” into a set while stretching. As long as something keeps moving it through the “ steps” and there’s a stop at the end. And no, he doesn’t have to take the same amount of “steps climbing the ladder” each time 

This is exactly why i brought this up, as the coach situation could happen.  Thankfully this was not a high stakes game, although these are 18/17u travel school system teams, just getting reps

All above average talent, but didnt want to let this kid go knowing , somebody is gonna call balks here, even if its a legit balk, or not.  (on the first two examples)

The third example was one i picked out that I never balk, but never saw this crap my age, so was like how is this fair to runner question, and finally wanted to ask wtf as a general question

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, Umpire942 said:

This is exactly why i brought this up, as the coach situation could happen.  Thankfully this was not a high stakes game, although these are 18/17u travel school system teams, just getting reps

 

In my case the coach was “arguing” he can’t bring his hands together at the belt and raise them and stop at the chest. My answer was as long as its one and only one stop, it doesn’t matter which direction the hands move to get there.
Of course next inning he stops at the belt, then raises and stops again at the chest🙄

[maven]

5 hours ago, Umpire942 said:

When he said two pumps, thats what I thought he was referring to but lost me.  Baybe he means the "up and down to belt, up and down to belt" action if continuous would not be a balk

If that's what he meant, then he's still wrong: the motion to come set is not constrained to two of anything.

[Umpire942]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:37 AM, maven said:

Two points that have yet to be mentioned. First, the set (when it finally comes) must be at the chin or below (at least for FED). I recommend not being picky about this—any part of the mitt near the chin as broadly defined as we like.

Second, the "two pumps" business is in the book under the windup, not the set.

ok to twist noodles..

Maybe my partner was thinking he was doing a windup? i cant remember the situation.  He was one of the weird pitchers.  That with nobody on.  Does the stretch on the mound, and then starts the wind up.  Since this pitcher does both.  The stretch becomes almost the same to him.  Now of course my partner the BU would need to know if he is pitching stretch or windup no?

[Richvee]

50 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

ok to twist noodles..

Maybe my partner was thinking he was doing a windup? i cant remember the situation.  He was one of the weird pitchers.  That with nobody on.  Does the stretch on the mound, and then starts the wind up.  Since this pitcher does both.  The stretch becomes almost the same to him.  Now of course my partner the BU would need to know if he is pitching stretch or windup no?

We're getting into a different discussion here. Windup vs. set.

For FED, it's all about the pivot foot. If the pivot foot is parallel to the rubber, by rule, FED says he's in a set position. From here, he cannot "wind up" by moving his free foot anywhere but towards home to deliver the ball. 

OBR and NCAA allow this windup, but if the pitcher intends to wind up from this position with runners on he must inform the umpires of his intentions, and he must continue to wind up until there's a new batter or base runner(s) situation changes. 

[JSam21]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:09 PM, Umpire942 said:

 

- if a pitcher is in the set position comes together hands at his waste, but (does the opposite) and goes straight to a high set (without stopping) is that not a balk?  Obviously if he stops its a balk. Thats what i saw as PU.  He then did it again and i didnt see a stop again.  Finally he just came to one set.   Post game my  veteran partner says hes allowed "two pumps" .  He did agree with if he stopped it would have been a balk. 

Remember, everything needs to come to a discernible stop. There are "zero pumps" allowed from the set position. 

 

- from stretch pitcher looks in at signs , starts the stretch to come set but then goes back down to look at signs again.   sometimes its very subtle too. where the foot might not move but body did.

This is a start/stop balk

- pitchers coming to stretch, but walking a ladder.  Sometimes its 2 sometimes, its 4 (stop and starts)  I dont have this as a balk, but as a runner is that not deceiving? I know as umpires thats not how we are to say or think that way.  But right now im thinking as a runner.

Deception, in and of itself, is not illegal. There are 13 illegal acts that a pitcher can commit. If you have a full and discernible stop, then it is a balk when they do it again. If you don't, it is nothing until they come to a full and discernible stop.