Problems with Travel Ball

[Umpire in Chief]

For me it seems that travel ball is where most problems come from. I have a few theories and wanted to get your feedback.

One of the main problems I see is lack of central authority. This would prevent or at least give some authority and coercive power over teams to do what they are supposed to do. For example this Saturday I was supposed to have 2 games in this USSSA tournament. 1 team didn't show. Now everybody other than the team which didn't show got screwed. My partner and I got screwed out of a full game fee and had to spend 2+ hours hanging around for our second game. The host team got screwed by having to cover and pay my partner and I 1 umpire's fee to split between my partner and I. The players got screwed by not getting a game in they wanted to play and have to sit around for another 2 hours.

Right now what happens? The host team now says, 'Well we'll never go to one of their tournaments.' or 'They won't be invited back to another tournament.' Whoop de freaking doo. That will show them.

Also take my other occurrence at this same tournament. I ejected 2 coaches. Other than my commissioner, who will ever know about this and be able to realize there's a pattern or history? Nobody. Also in my instance we had spit, not expectorating but as he yelled spit was landing on me. I realize this is a NCAA rule not USSSA. But there is nobody to read that and take further action. What if there was a bump? My guy came toe to toe chest to chest with me, but what if he'd bumped me? Who would review the ejection report and take any additional action if needed? Nobody.

Honestly, I think some of the travel ball teams are formed from maverick PONY/LL squads or coaches where organizations will not tolerate them any more. But in the travel ball pay-to-play environment it can be no holds barred. And with the number of these travel ball teams the talent level has been watered down so much that it is usually just a bit better than the equivalent PONY level but 2-3 times the attitude.

[Mr Umpire]

My partner and I got screwed out of a full game fee and had to spend 2+ hours hanging around for our second game.

We will get a full game fee for a forfeit. It isn't our fault they didn't show and I will not umpire for that league if they refuse to pay full for their mistakes/problems.

What if there was a bump?

He better be leaving or I'll have him escorted to the nearest police station. I don't care if there is a report to be written. This can be HS or NCAA. Won't matter, I don't have to put on a show for them like the MLB does. Yell at me but don't touch me. I don't want anyone I don't know or like to be less than 2 feet from me.

I agree with the assessment that these are the type of coaches who no longer have a field to call home. Poor babies. Now, they are mad and want to teach their players how to grow up hating the world.

[ShinySideUp]

Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe the association I work for actually is good ... but ...

Here in eastern Iowa, there are two primary "travel ball" organizations, both under the USSSA organization. One group runs the league season, and the other runs the tournaments (just about every weekend, with many offering points toward national championships).

If a team doesn't show for either a league game or a tournament, the umps get full fee, from the association. It takes a couple of days, but I've not waited more than a week. Tourney games are paid at the end of the day. For tourney ball, un-announced no-show forfeits count as a double loss (with zero runs earned and seven allowed per game) for pool seeding, virtually assuring a last-place seed.

The names of coaches who abuse umps in either league or tourney games are shared between the organizations. I know of one ejected coach who served his (league-imposed) suspension during the first game of a tournament, and the TD told the umps before the game what was going on.

In one tournament game a coach was giving me #%^& for being out of position on a play at third. The field director heard him shouting, and quietly made his presence known without intruding on the field. I didn't EJ the coach, and the field director talked to us both individually after the game, and backed me.

In short, I think I've got it pretty good as an umpire.

That said, there are many coaches who are close to the top, and some who are over it.

Travel ball on the east coast (where I worked until four years ago) was REALLY bad, and the accountability was pretty much as you described - non-existent. I used to do a lot of games for East Coast Tournament Baseball, and while the association backed the umps right down the line, there were a LOT more EJs and arguments back east than I've seen here.

[Lawrence_Dorsey]

I stopped doing travel ball about five years ago. I only worked travel ball early in the spring and in the fall after the summer season was over. I stopped because it just wasn't worth it to me anymore and the guy who ran the tournaments in Concord,NC sent an email out that essentially lambasted the booking agent (who was just OK) and also all of the umpires. Until that point I thought he had our backs and I had been impressed with his actions on a couple of occassions. Here is a list of the problems I saw :

1) Too many coaches and coaches that wanted to stand on the field while their team was on defense. The coaches were mouthy and because they'd paid an entry fee they were expecting Doug Harvey and Harry Wendlestedt (in their respective primes) to call the games.

2) Umpires working too many games. I am not a huge fan of doubleheaders, but I do work them occasionally. However, there were umpires at these tournaments working 3, 4, and 5 games a day. That is way to many games for someone to do the job effectively. No one can convince me that an umpire on game 5 of the day is giving his best.

3) Too many games/not enough quality umpires. This problem has resolved itself since many of the tournaments have dried up and the few that are left are much smaller than in the past. However, given the number of games that needed be covered back when I was working, it was impossible to get "quality" umpires for all games. I saw guys working that were way past their prime and some that had no business on a baseball field but the games had to be covered so these "umpires" worked.

Warren you are correct that there are few reprocussions for misbehavior at tournaments. That is why I like HS baseball the best anymore. The kids know that if they get way out of line, not only will they face on-field sanctions, but they may also be in the principal's office in the morning. Legion ball here is still handled pretty well but the kids and coaches don't face anything more than a suspension from the field.

Lawrence

[HokieUmp]

Well, I was UIC's partner for the AAU game he's referring to. In my opinion, AAU basketball is fairly unsavory overall, and I'm not sure baseball is that much better - maybe for different reasons, but it's got issues.

As Warren said, what's the chain o' command? It's not like there's a Virginia AAU - yeah, there IS one, but it's not going to DO anything. And at the national level, from what I can tell, you get a team to the nationals with 2 criteria: 1) find 15 or so kids that can shell out a couple grand, and 2) play in a state tournament. You don't have to win, mind, you just have to play in one.

(And 2A: as a coach, you need an unreasonably lofty view of your ability to coach/play/be a rules master.)

And the fee? I've seen what other guys have said, and I think our organization is good. What we get for a fee has seemed to vary; my first year in 2007, it seemed like if I made it to the facility, I got a full fee. Last year, it was a little of full, a little of "a travel fee." This was the first game I'd had pulled from under me this year.

Problem is, our assignor wants to help this team out, as it's starting up again, and they've usually done well by us, as I understand it. And I get that, especially when times are harder. But Warren came from about 35 miles out, and I drove about 52. More importantly, it cost me 2 more hours of my day, and I could have used the extra sleep, thanks to a late night/early morning that day.

And then to have a couple 'daddy coaches' give us he11? With the comment "you need to learn the rules?" Seriously? Dude wants to go that road with me?

I told Warren after the game, if I didn't want to keep moving up (one day) in the association, I was about to propose the following: I'd stop the clock and give him five minutes to find what he was yammering about in the rulebook. If he finds it, we'll reverse the call and score the run, BUT..... if he can't, he's ejected.

On the other hand, he flapped his gums too much and too long, and was dumped anyway. Karma wins.

Edited April 21, 2009 by HokieUmp
grammar and missing words

[LMSANS]

I don't do much travel ball. But I do work 2 tourneys a year on Memorial weekend and July 4 weekend. I work 3 games on Sat & Sun and 2 on Mon. I work it mainly because it's decent ball ( for 13-14 yo) and pays $55 a game with a firm 2 hour limit. The tournament is run by a HS coach. That's where he gets his umpires (Our association only does HS ball). The games are played by Fed rules with a couple of local variations for subs.

There is always a rep from the tourney around the field. The umpires are supported 100%. You get paid in cash at the end of the day. If there is a forfeit, you still get paid. I travel more than most, about 20 miles one way. I don't think I would do a lot of travel ball outside of this.

I have stopped a LL-jr when an EJ coach would not leave. I would have no problem stopping a travel game. As far as the near assault, I have often thought I would have no problem pressing charges on any coach that touched me. And NJ has one of them special laws protecting officials.

If I ever didn't get paid, it would be a case of "fool me once..."

[theedeuce]

Don't like them at all. Travel Ball here in Georgia is very popular. Why, I don't know. I now call it DADDY BALL. Especially in the 12 or younger age groups. If your in it for just the money then travel ball will fit you well... CUMGETUSUM...

We always got paid (cash) before we left. Our tournament director wouldn't schedule any games until he got his entry fee up front. Any no shows or forfeits was on the team that didn't show. Up until a few years ago I used to call a lot of travel ball tournaments. Now, I only call on 90' diamonds. Seems to be less hollering at the kids and more quality baseball.

[dawg-man]

The travel ball I have done here in Georgia is usually run pretty strict. We umpires get paid at the end of the day but I have since stopped doing them. They want you to do 4-6 games a day and I can not give the teams my best after 2-3 games. The coaches are mostly Bobby Cox wannabes and some of my " partners" would show up at game time with no plate gear or getting dressed as they walk on the field. I love baseball as much as the next guy but a line has to be drawn. For me its high school ball and LL, I get great pleasure from both of them. So long travel ball.

[jjb]

As long as you're working in your Home Organization, you're probably pretty well backed up by your TD's. We'll toss a coach at these Tournaments just as fast as we will at any other game. The TD's meet with the coaches prior to the Tournament, and let them know to either leave us alone, or read the final score of the game on the website. We've tossed players and coaches from the entire Tourney (once under Police escort). It's good business: the other teams come here to play, and don't need all the nonsense, and one moron can ruin a Tournment for everybody.

Where you start walking on thin ice is where you work somebody else's Tournament as a "guest umpire". Then, you're pretty much stuck with whatever group is hosting.

[mstaylor]

I work with one tournament system that is tough on ejections. If you are ejected early you sit a game. if you are tossed in semis or finals, you are done for the tournament and the for the next one. If you forfeit it is an additional fee, seems like it is in the vicinity of $100.00.

[Umpire in Chief]

I did an AAU tourny a few years ago and an EJ meant you were done for the whole tourny.

[LMSANS]

Hitting them in the pocket book works great. Our local Pop Warner football has a $500 if there are 2 unsportsmanlike conduct flags against a team. The coach is EJ and suspended for the next week minimum.

A team was excessively vocal about penalties and were "counting" penalties. I threw the UC flag for 15 yards and didn't hear a peep for the rest of the 1st half or 2nd half.

[NWA_UMP]

In my area travel is a much better game than our rec. system. Better players, more action and better run. Our Cal Ripken is horrible, Babe Ruth is decent. Players with few skills and coaches who tell you that you should not use dropped 3rd strike for 11-12's because it is too confusing. I much preferr USSSA in our area. But it does have its drawbacks...

[mstaylor]

I did a USSSA tournament and a coach went after an young umpire. He was getting killed and nothing the umpires did or didn't do had any effect. The coach was suspended for the year. It doesn't mean he can't go to a different system but all these guys talk and it won't take long to wear his welcome out.

[blue32]

A lot of the tourneys I work have adopted the rule of "If a player or coach is ejected, he will be ejected from the rest of the tournament." It keeps things under control. Our state commisioner even adopted it for the Cal Ripken state and regional tourneys I worked last year. The state tourney was quiet, but I launched 1 coach and 4 parents from the regional. It was a 10u regional, and those are the worst. The younger the kids, the worse the parents are. The coach that I dumped appealed to the TD, and was reinstated after sitting out 1 game. To his credit, he came to me after the game, and before he appealed, and aplogized to me for his behavior, and admitted he was completely in the wrong. He was a decent guy who got caught up in the moment on a banger at first. I understood he wanted to stick up for his kids, but he crossed a line, and I had to punch his ticket.

The 4 parents I had removed from the field for being total jackasses. They were ordered off the property for the remainder of the tourney, and had to watch the rest of the games from the street outside of left field. We had a great tournament once we banished those a-holes. The kids were allowed to have fun, without fear of embarrasment by their parent's behavior.

[mstaylor]

A kid asked me Sun about the ruckus on Sat. I told him it was adults not acting like adults.

[therefump]

Interesting comments by all. Here in SE PA my assignor picks up AAU and other travel related tournament teams (though they are few around here). He's got our backs 1000%. You can be assured that if certain teams/coaches give us problems they won't get our Chapter to assign umpires ever again.

Having said that there are certain guys who do freelance work at times. I made that mistake about 8 years ago picking up a game with a partner and nearly got into a fist fight with a coach for bumping me (I totally agree about personal space and the 2 foot rule mentioned above). That's what started me carrying my cell phone in my back pocket. 911 is just one touch away. I would not wait until after a game to file charges. Too many witnesses would disappear for not wanting to get involved.

All my games come through my assignor. He's been doing this since the 60s so he knows all the coaches, etc.:bang:

[Aging_Arbiter]

I know.......late entry. But being a new member, I have much reading to keep up on.

I too was enamored with travel ball when I first got into it. THe ECTB tournaments were in Reading PA, about an hour and a half from me. The last trny that I worked was when I was asked to go to another field to give an umpire a break because he hadd been working games non stop all day. Overkill? Yes. but wait, there's more <as he says in his best Billy Mays voice> I was working the last semi final game on world series weekend. YAY FOR ME!! But wait, that means the guy who I am giving a break before the final, the guy who was walking funny when he left the field, is coming back for more! BUT WAIT, THERE"S MORE!! (Billy Mays again) After my game, I went to the truck to change over and drive home. As I pulled out of the parking lot (and as the final game was starting!!!) I looked at the clock. 11:58pm. 'nuff said.

[blindumpire99]

I have a friend who USED to coach a lot of traveling fastpitch softball..

he got out of it after a few years...he told me he was so sick and tired of parents pulling him off to the side, giving him advice or wondering just where the "scouts" were and why their little Jonny-etta wasn't being scouted since she was the greatest thing since sliced bread...:wave:

[ump81]

Gentlemen, Overall a good subject with well thought out comments, I also agree AAU and USSSA have the most rude, disruptive parents and coaches. I've worked all levels from pinto to NCAA College toutnaments, and over the years my nastiest ejections and arguments have been in travel ball, which in the scheme of things really doesnt matter too much. I can appreciate and emphathise with a college coach who in many cases when he comes out to argue is knowlegable, respectful and just wants a real answer to our calls reasoning or rule. These guys are fighting for their jobs some seasons, I have seen coaches released in Div I and III due to not winning and running a disorganized program. I never could quite understand the AAU or youth guy arguing, what are the parents going to do "fire" him from his volunteer manager gig? These guys are inevitably glorified dads, wanna bees or never was types. I feel a point that goes to the heart of the matter is MONEY, greenbacks, dead presidents, cash, moolah. The parents now are paying $2000 a season for many teams, huge payouts for bats and equipment, ($100 gloves $300 bats are normal), travel expenses and umpire fees. Baseball is becoming more like hockey in that the game is pricing itself out of the cities and populating with suburban more monied families. With this huge payout come unreasonable expectations on playing time, ability, wins and loses and umpire ability. The coaches, dads themselves, are dangerously caught up in the unreasonable expectations and loose any sense of perspective. I refereed hockey for about 5 years and travel hockey also was the most hazardous element to ref in hockey also. By the end I was doing only adult and house league by my own choice due to the endless harrasment, threats and abuse of travel "fans". A more accountable central authority would clearly help clean up AAU and travel, we need to be more assertive and diligent on our ejections, and fan education such as PONY and Little League have attempted to do over the years helps also. We have to play with the hand we are dealt, AAU is still a pretty good fee in our area and we see some real talent and good baseball sometimes. We have hosted a few national AAU championships over the years and it was a pleasure working those games. Stay fair, firm, vigilant and at all times safe out there. My take.

[blindumpire99]

I never could quite understand the AAU or youth guy arguing, what are the parents going to do "fire" him from his volunteer manager gig? These guys are inevitably glorified dads, wanna bees or never was types. I feel a point that goes to the heart of the matter is MONEY, greenbacks, dead presidents, cash, moolah. The parents now are paying $2000 a season for many teams, huge payouts for bats and equipment, ($100 gloves $300 bats are normal), travel expenses and umpire fees. Baseball is becoming more like hockey in that the game is pricing itself out of the cities and populating with suburban more monied families. With this huge payout come unreasonable expectations on playing time, ability, wins and loses and umpire ability. The coaches, dads themselves, are dangerously caught up in the unreasonable expectations and loose any sense of perspective.

And 81 nails it on the head...These (usually) more affluent parents, who can create their OWN brand of selfish behavior(s) on their own, are expecting that since they paid "X" amount of many dead president$ andtravelled "X" amount of many miles to grace you with their presence at your tournament, feel that they deserve special treatment(s) and go to the extremes of demanding high dollar performance for their high dollar$..

And they forget that their Little Jonny or Jonny-etta puts their pants on the same way everyday as everyone else does..

[Umpire in Chief]

Amazingly I don't have as much problem in the tournaments as I do in the little weekend gatherings and 3 team round robin sets. As Ump81 said we host a number of tournaments in our area including the AAU national championships for a few age groups and they overall go well.

Funny story Day 1 of AAU 13 National Championship tournament. I have a team from RI. Second pitcher of the game for RI comes out and has his white t-shirt sleeve hanging about an inch or two below his navy blue Jersey. I walk over and tell the coach. "I'm not going to say anything about his white sleeve hanging down, but if the other team brings it up I'm going to have to ask him to take care of it quickly."

The coach is fine and assures me between innings he'll take care of it. ... He didn't but nobody complained.

The next day Ump81 has the same team. New pitcher enters and while he's warming up the other team complains about the white shirt. Ump81 enforces the rule. The coach has a conniption and says he'd never heard of such a thing. The kid takes forever to fix it and the coach nearly gets ejected.

Classic RAT.