Tagging a runner

[Guest johnlow]

how close must fielder be to the runnert for the tag attempt to be cosidered valid?

[maven]

What does "valid" mean? For it to be a tag, it has to be arm's length or less!

I'm guessing this is about the 3-foot violation. And in that case, it doesn't have to be close at all: once the fielder with the ball starts moving toward the runner, the tag attempt has begun, and the runner has to head directly to a base (advancing or returning). Deviating more than 3 feet from that direct line in order to avoid the tag results in a (live-ball) out.

[Guest Johnlow]

37 minutes ago, maven said:

What does "valid" mean? For it to be a tag, it has to be arm's length or less!

I'm guessing this is about the 3-foot violation. And in that case, it doesn't have to be close at all: once the fielder with the ball starts moving toward the runner, the tag attempt has begun, and the runner has to head directly to a base (advancing or returning). Deviating more than 3 feet from that direct line in order to avoid the tag results in a (live-ball) out.

So R2 in outfield and F6 moves three steps towards the runner and is this a tag attempt?

If a fielder fails to tag the runner firstly but he does not renounce to tag him and tries again, Is this a new tag attempt and d'ora the runner can create a new base line?

[The Man in Blue]

53 minutes ago, maven said:

What does "valid" mean? For it to be a tag, it has to be arm's length or less!

I'm guessing this is about the 3-foot violation. And in that case, it doesn't have to be close at all: once the fielder with the ball starts moving toward the runner, the tag attempt has begun, and the runner has to head directly to a base (advancing or returning). Deviating more than 3 feet from that direct line in order to avoid the tag results in a (live-ball) out.

 

That terminology makes me cringe.  As I was typing this, the guest already pointed out one flaw.  I usually use a rundown as the example.  A fielder chasing behind a runner with the ball is NOT a tag attempt.  

There is no "strong" definition of when the tag attempt begins.  Personally, I use this standard: IMO, the tag attempt begins when we have a imminent intersection point between the runner and the glove/ball.  Once I see that potential intersection point of the tag, then the runner's 3-feet of leeway is established for me.  Yes, I give any wiggle room to the fielder making the tag as long as it looks as if there could be a tag point.

As for the establishment of the base path, technically that is always changing as runners do not move in straight lines.  This is another reason I look for a singular point of reference to establish where the three feet will kick in.  If the fielder misses that point and makes another physical effort, we can re-establish a new path.

All in all, it is a judgement call.  There is not a strictly defined answer.

[MT73]

I was taught to use the fielder’s outstretched arm as a guide.

[noumpere]

4 hours ago, Guest johnlow said:

how close must fielder be to the runnert for the tag attempt to be cosidered valid?

Umpire judgment (aka "sometimes you just need to umpire")

[Guest johnlow]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:16 PM, maven said:

We have this situation:

1. Fielder need to be close to the runner to attempt a tag

Or

2. Fielder does not to be close to the runner but he needs only to move towards the runner to constrain him to stay in the basepath. 

We have two different interpretations on when a tag attempt starts.

 What are the rules about it?

Or could an umpire arbitrarily choose one or the other interpretation?

 

that page is the definition of play no tag attempt. I mean a tag attempt is considered a play but running toward a runner is not a tag attempt.

 

So if rhe fielder fails to tag the runner and he tries will there be a new tag attempt with a new basepath?

[Senor Azul]

The definition of tag attempt (to restrict a runner's baseline) was changed in 2017. The following text is from the website baseballrulesacademy.com.

Prior to the 2017 season, a runner's baseline (excluding a rundown) was restricted by the fielder's tag attempt with ball in glove or hand and extended toward the runner. This season, however, there is a rule change.

A fielder no longer has to have ball in glove or hand extended toward the runner to restrict his baseline. A fielder's movement toward the runner is sufficient. 

The rundown rule has not changed. During a rundown, the runner's restricted 3-foot baseline starts the moment it begins...The baseline changes with every throw. A tag attempt is not necessary.

[maven]

[Senor Azul]

This is not the first time this interpretation has been discussed here. Let me direct you to a thread titled Running outside the baseline? in the Ask the Umpire forum dated July 7, 2019. In that thread Mr. Jimurray told us that the new interpretation can be found in the MLBUM and it's also in the Minor League manual as well. Here's what the MiLBUM says 

When determining whether a base runner should be called out under Rule 5.09(b)(1), so long as the umpire determines that a play is being made on the runner and an attempt to tag is occurring i.e., the fielder is moving to tag the runner, no physical tag attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the base path.