Might have a State Championship gotten away?

[Catch18]

 

B7, tie game, 2 outs, R1/R2/R3…..

 

Let me know what you see.

[JonnyCat]

Oops. Looks like BR never touched first base.

[ErichKeane]

R2 missed 3b as well!

[Catch18]

Oops. Looks like BR never touched first base.

He touches first.

[Catch18]

R2 missed 3b as well!

Bingo!

[Jimurray]

17 minutes ago, Catch18 said:

Bingo!

Did he miss 3B or never get there? Do they have to appeal (easy peasy anyway in any code) or would that be a live action force out even though the winning run has appeared to happen and the game is over. If the ball stays in the infield and they throw R3 out after the winning run scored it does not become the winning run. When the ball goes into the outfield and the winning run scores do we need an appeal or just a throw to get the forced runner out.

 

[Catch18]

Did he miss 3B or never get there? Do they have to appeal (easy peasy anyway in any code) or would that be a live action force out even though the winning run has appeared to happen and the game is over. If the ball stays in the infield and they throw R3 out after the winning run scored it does not become the winning run. When the ball goes into the outfield and the winning run scores do we need an appeal or just a throw to get the forced runner out.
 

Never got there, he peels off 2/3 of the way to go celebrate. Force out still intact. Make the play and no run scores.

[mw94]

And I am pretty damn sure the Plate umpire knew the rules if you notice he is hanging around the plate well after R3 touches home & looking toward 3rd base.  He does not leave until the defense has left the field

 

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, mw94 said:

And I am pretty damn sure the Plate umpire knew the rules if you notice he is hanging around the plate well after R3 touches home & looking toward 3rd base.  He does not leave until the defense has left the field

 

Not a bad idea to delay a little to see if a play would happen but FED rules allow end of game appeals until the umpires leave the field. Is an abandonment call here possible? I'm not grabbing that one.

[umpstu]

29 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Not a bad idea to delay a little to see if a play would happen but FED rules allow end of game appeals until the umpires leave the field. Is an abandonment call here possible? I'm not grabbing that one.

I had this play happen in a semi final and waited a little to see what happened.  Nothing happened and all of us umpires had a nice meal before our drive home.

[scrounge]

bottom of the 8th, actually

[Richvee]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Not a bad idea to delay a little to see if a play would happen but FED rules allow end of game appeals until the umpires leave the field. Is an abandonment call here possible? I'm not grabbing that one.

Yeah, I’m not grabbing abandonment here. Let the defense do the right thing, or let it be. 

[Jimurray]

30 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Yeah, I’m not grabbing abandonment here. Let the defense do the right thing, or let it be. 

Interesting thing, if you do grab it in OBR it is not a force out yet. Has to be appealed. But while MLBUM has a caseplay about abandonment during a HR I think their schools might encourage no call in a game ending play. What say you any Florida ex students?

[scrounge]

12 hours ago, mw94 said:

And I am pretty damn sure the Plate umpire knew the rules if you notice he is hanging around the plate well after R3 touches home & looking toward 3rd base.  He does not leave until the defense has left the field

 

He did, as did U3 (this was a 4 person crew), both of them saw it immediately and hung around for a few seconds before departing.

[Jimurray]

14 minutes ago, scrounge said:

He did, as did U3 (this was a 4 person crew), both of them saw it immediately and hung around for a few seconds before departing.

What rule are you saying they knew?

[scrounge]

1 minute ago, Jimurray said:

What rule are you saying they knew?

That R2 was required to touch 3rd and that if appealed, the walk-off run would have had to be wiped out....that would have been quite the situation.

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, scrounge said:

That R2 was required to touch 3rd and that if appealed, the walk-off run would have had to be wiped out....that would have been quite the situation.

Did they know that it could be appealed until the last umpire left the field? They should of course delayed a little bit as they did to see if a play happened at 3B. What do think about calling abandonment on R2? That would have been quite the situation also that we don't have much guidance on in the interps.

[scrounge]

5 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Did they know that it could be appealed until the last umpire left the field? They should of course delayed a little bit as they did to see if a play happened at 3B. What do think about calling abandonment on R2? That would have been quite the situation also that we don't have much guidance on in the interps.

Most definitely. They did delay a bit, about 4-5 seconds, then started walking and then jogging off. It's a fine line, I think, don't want to sprint off and abdicate responsibility but don't want to delay too long or abnormally and give away that there's something there. 

I don't think abandonment ever entered their minds or would have been the right call, the defense has some obligation here. R2 ran the bases, just not legally. Abandonment would have been quite the firestorm :). 

[Richvee]

6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

That would have been quite the situation also that we don't have much guidance on in the interps.

Another good reason not grab this end of the stick. We have very little guidance from Fed if this is a time play or force. No need to call it if it’s a time play, and I’m not sure I can find a rulebook or case play interp to back me up if I call it a force. 

[scrounge]

4 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Another good reason not grab this end of the stick. We have very little guidance from Fed if this is a time play or force. No need to call it if it’s a time play, and I’m not sure I can find a rulebook or case play interp to back me up if I call it a force. 

Oh it would have been a force, bases were loaded. This is one of the rules differences in Fed vs NCAA/OBR, only the batter-runner and R3 have to touch their bases in those codes but all have to do so in Fed. If they had appealed it, U3 would have ruled an out in this case, for a missed base on a force. This would fall under 9-1-1(d). Case 9.1.1 SIT D is analogous, though not exactly the same it deals with a runner missing a base to which he was forced and negating the run.

 

[Jimurray]

15 minutes ago, scrounge said:

Oh it would have been a force, bases were loaded. This is one of the rules differences in Fed vs NCAA/OBR, only the batter-runner and R3 have to touch their bases in those codes but all have to do so in Fed. If they had appealed it, U3 would have ruled an out in this case, for a missed base on a force. This would fall under 9-1-1(d). Case 9.1.1 SIT D is analogous, though not exactly the same it deals with a runner missing a base to which he was forced and negating the run.

 

You have OBR wrong. In all codes on a batted ball all runners must execute their responsibility. Only on an award does OBR and NCAA (with some doubt as to what they mean) only require the B-R and R3 to advance. And in OBR the umpire should tell them to do so, NCAA who knows. I think @Richvee the BRD has some cites that says a FED abandonment call is a forceout but an OBR is not.

 

[Richvee]

26 minutes ago, scrounge said:

Oh it would have been a force, bases were loaded. This is one of the rules differences in Fed vs NCAA/OBR, only the batter-runner and R3 have to touch their bases in those codes but all have to do so in Fed. If they had appealed it, U3 would have ruled an out in this case, for a missed base on a force. This would fall under 9-1-1(d). Case 9.1.1 SIT D is analogous, though not exactly the same it deals with a runner missing a base to which he was forced and negating the run.

 

The miss and subsequent appeal for sure is a force. My question is, would the call of abandonment be a force?  

[scrounge]

1 minute ago, Richvee said:

The miss and subsequent appeal for sure is a force. My question is, would the call of abandonment be a force?  

Oh, gotcha...I imagine it would have to be under the same principle of an out made by a forced runner before they achieved the base to which they were forced. But there was no way abandonment was being called in this situation, trust me 😉

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, Richvee said:

The miss and subsequent appeal for sure is a force. My question is, would the call of abandonment be a force?  

 

Just now, scrounge said:

Oh, gotcha...I imagine it would have to be under the same principle of an out made by a forced runner before they achieved the base to which they were forced. But there was no way abandonment was being called in this situation, trust me 😉

Should it have been called? The only reference is an MLBUM play where they call it as a time play. WTF would call it? Calling all proschool grads as to what they say to do about this?

[scrounge]

19 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

You have OBR wrong. In all codes on a batted ball all runners must execute their responsibility. Only on an award does OBR and NCAA (with some doubt as to what they mean) only require the B-R and R3 to advance. And in OBR the umpire should tell them to do so, NCAA who knows. I think @Richvee the BRD has some cites that says a FED abandonment call is a forceout but an OBR is not.

 

My mistake, thank you. I do virtually no OBR games, so I confused the two provisions.