Couple quick questions

[SH0102]

Was doing an indoor intersquad today (college) and was asked two questions; well I was asked one question directly and then had a situation a coach was telling his team something that is not true…figured I’d double back here:

1. Batter is hit on hands by a pitch, is being looked at by coach near plate.  Catcher walks out to pitcher during this whole time. Coach asks me “in a game, would that be a defensive conference?”

2. Runners on 1st and 3rd, lefty pitching. Lifts lead leg, R1 takes off, he steps down and throws to first without gaining ground, so I come up big with “that’s a balk”. Coach comes out and is telling his team they need to play it out, that’s a free play and balks don’t kill it in college.

what say you with #1? I already know that’s wrong in #2, in order for a balk to be ignored, the batter and runners must advance , but without a pitch the batter doesn’t go anywhere , there is no provision for offense can elect the result of the play on a balk, it’s either ignored or it’s enforced….I wasn’t sure if it was my place to “instruct him” on that. Figured I would if he asked but wouldn’t seek him out to correct him. 

[Senor Azul]

From the 2019-2020 College Study Guide (p. 155):

If the offensive team has a prolonged injury timeout, the pitcher may leave the mound and confer with the coach, or the coach may go to the mound to talk with the pitcher without being charged with a defensive trip. If the defensive conference further delays play, a trip shall be charged to the defensive team.

2021 NCAA rule 9-4a 6) If the offensive team has a prolonged injury timeout, the pitcher may leave the mound and confer with the coach, or the coach may go to the mound to talk with the pitcher without being charged with a defensive conference. If the defensive conference further delays play, a trip shall be charged to the defensive team.

[Richvee]

As for the balk.  
Runners are allowed to try to advance beyond their awarded base on a balk. If the ball got by F3, we would call the balk and leave the play live. R1 has the right to try to advance to 3b or beyond at his own risk. If F3 catches the ball, we would call time and enforce the balk. 

[SH0102]

3 minutes ago, Richvee said:

As for the balk.  
Runners are allowed to try to advance beyond their awarded base on a balk. If the ball got by F3, we would call the balk and leave the play live. R1 has the right to try to advance to 3b or beyond at his own risk. If F3 catches the ball, we would call time and enforce the balk. 

He did catch the ball and was throwing to second to try and get R1.

SenorAzul, that jives with what I mentioned but I guess my question is where the line becomes prolonged? I told him yes it would be a conference bc they came out and checked his fingers for 30-45 seconds.  To me that happens on a lot of hit by pitch, sometimes at plate, sometimes halfway to first, sometimes at first, and they can’t get free conference every time.  I said bleeding and concussion they could, regular hit by pitch no, but I suppose HBP where guy is writhing on the ground, we allow it for “free”

[Richvee]

5 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

10 minutes ago, Richvee said:

 

He did catch the ball and was throwing to second to try and get R1.

I don’t know if we can find it in the NCAA rulebook, but from MLBUM

”If the balk is followed by a pickoff throw to a base, that is caught by a fielder, call “Time” the moment the fielder catches the ball  Then enforce the balk.”

If the balk is followed by a wild throw to base , OBR provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which the runner is entitled at his own risk. In that situation the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call time until all play has ceased. ( runners have stopped trying to advance and a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield)  “ 

 

 

[Senor Azul]

From the 2019-2020 NCAA Study Guide (p. 143):  If the pitcher continues and throws to a base (9-3 Pen 2) and the ball is caught, the ball is dead and any out is voided. This interpretation is based on the rule cited, 9-3 Pen 2, which does not spell it out exactly--

2) If a balk immediately is followed by a wild throw by the pitcher to a base that permits a runner(s) to advance to or beyond the base to which that runner is entitled, the balk shall be acknowledged. The umpire will call the balk in the usual manner, but shall not call “Time” until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Mr. SH0102, if what the rule actually says about when to charge a trip does not help you—“If the defensive conference further delays play, a trip shall be charged to the defensive team”—I don’t know what else to say. You can usually judge how bad the injury is to a batter hit by a pitch and take that into account about allowing a conference by the other team and advise them to make it snappy.

[MadMax]

On Situation 1, I’m not charging a defensive conference for, while the ball is Dead and a potentially injured player is being attended to, the players standing or conversing together. If a coach comes out and joins them, then certainly, that’s a (coach) conference. However, barring coaches, if we establish who requested Time, or why the ball is Dead, then there is no need to charge a conference if it doesn’t delay or prolong a/the return to Live ball play. 

Example: With R2, Batter hits a double. Throw comes in and R2 scores. BR, now on 2B, requests Time of BU so as to offload his various armor cuffs to a BC for the oven mitt. Time is called, the ball is Dead. F2 requests a new ball of PU, and F1, having backed up F2 at the plate, walks towards the mound alongside F2. F2 and F1 discuss briefly, and F2 returns to plate while F1 heads for the rosin bag. BR (now R2) returns to 2B, a new Batter enters the box, F1 engages the rubber, and PU calls “Play”. 
No charged conference. 

On Situation 2, it is what @Richvee and Azul stated – if a Balk is committed and called, followed by a pickoff throw, then we observe the result of the throw. If caught and controlled, Umpires call Time and enforce the Balk penalty. If the ball is not caught or controlled, Rs are allowed to advance beyond their Balk award. It’s only if a called Balk is followed by a pitch that we observe the results in regards to the Batter. Ball, called strike, swung strike, foul ball – we call Time and enforce the Balk penalty, emphasizing that the Batter returns to / remains at bat with no change in the count. If the Batter puts the pitch into play, then the Batter and all Runners must safely advance one base (any advance beyond this is at their peril) for the Balk to be nullified. 

[Kevin_K]

16 hours ago, SH0102 said:

2. Runners on 1st and 3rd, lefty pitching. Lifts lead leg, R1 takes off, he steps down and throws to first without gaining ground, so I come up big with “that’s a balk”. Coach comes out and is telling his team they need to play it out, that’s a free play and balks don’t kill it in college.

what say you with #1? I already know that’s wrong in #2, in order for a balk to be ignored, the batter and runners must advance , but without a pitch the batter doesn’t go anywhere , there is no provision for offense can elect the result of the play on a balk, it’s either ignored or it’s enforced….I wasn’t sure if it was my place to “instruct him” on that. Figured I would if he asked but wouldn’t seek him out to correct him. 

Was he instructing the fielders or the runners?

If he was instructing as though the team was on offense he isn't really wrong because the runner can't be put out unless he makes an attempt to advance beyond the next base, so in a sense it is a freebie

[SH0102]

17 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2019-2020 NCAA Study Guide (p. 143):  If the pitcher continues and throws to a base (9-3 Pen 2) and the ball is caught, the ball is dead and any out is voided. This interpretation is based on the rule cited, 9-3 Pen 2, which does not spell it out exactly--

2) If a balk immediately is followed by a wild throw by the pitcher to a base that permits a runner(s) to advance to or beyond the base to which that runner is entitled, the balk shall be acknowledged. The umpire will call the balk in the usual manner, but shall not call “Time” until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Mr. SH0102, if what the rule actually says about when to charge a trip does not help you—“If the defensive conference further delays play, a trip shall be charged to the defensive team”—I don’t know what else to say. You can usually judge how bad the injury is to a batter hit by a pitch and take that into account about allowing a conference by the other team and advise them to make it snappy.

Thanks for the snarky comment; my issue was with the word “prolonged”.  They tended to him for 20-30 seconds, is that prolonged?  Pretty much any HBP that isn’t a slow curve renders a quick check of batter, we give free conferences every time as long as they clear before they break?  Guess so given your snide remark

[TheRockawayKid]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:30 AM, Senor Azul said:

From the 2019-2020 NCAA Study Guide (p. 143):  If the pitcher continues and throws to a base (9-3 Pen 2) and the ball is caught, the ball is dead and any out is voided. This interpretation is based on the rule cited, 9-3 Pen 2, which does not spell it out exactly--

2) If a balk immediately is followed by a wild throw by the pitcher to a base that permits a runner(s) to advance to or beyond the base to which that runner is entitled, the balk shall be acknowledged. The umpire will call the balk in the usual manner, but shall not call “Time” until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and/or a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Mr. SH0102, if what the rule actually says about when to charge a trip does not help you—“If the defensive conference further delays play, a trip shall be charged to the defensive team”—I don’t know what else to say. You can usually judge how bad the injury is to a batter hit by a pitch and take that into account about allowing a conference by the other team and advise them to make it snappy.

Is there an online link for the study guide? 

[Senor Azul]

Is there an online link for the study guide? 

As far as I know there is not. I doubt that one would be allowed by the copyright holders. I own a copy of the 2019-2020 edition and the text I cite from the book is input by me—I type 50 wpm and even though that is not very fast it is still faster and easier than scanning.

[MadMax]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:43 PM, SH0102 said:

I told him yes it would be a conference bc they came out and checked his fingers for 30-45 seconds.

Hold on... The Batter (now BR, on HBP) is being examined by _his_ Coach (we'll name him Ollie) near the plate... and Ollie inquires as to if the _catcher_ (F2) going out towards the pitcher (F1) counts as a conference??  Does Ollie really want, or expect, F2 to hang around by the plate, peering over his shoulder while Ollie checks on his Batter's booboo? For over a half a minute? 

No, we're not doin' this. Again, if a Defense Team Coach (we'll name him Denny) takes the opportunity of a Dead Ball interval to go out and join the infielders in a discussion, then that is certainly a charged conference. But if Ollie and his staff are out there, checking on a potential injury to one of his Runners or the Batter, and the infielders – including the pitcher and/or catcher – want to mull around and talk, that isn't grounds to charge a conference. This isn't like Little League where everyone is told / expected to "take a knee" in place, and then give claps of encouragement as BooBoo retakes his feet and/or is guided off the field. 

A "prolonged" visit would be one where we had an injury attended to, Ollie leaves the field, a new Runner is placed on base (via Substitution), a new Batter comes to the plate, and I, as the PU have to direct F2 to "break it up" and "let's get back to baseball"... and he doesn't come trottin' back... and just stays out there. Then – and only then – am I going to denote and charge them a conference. Once again, if Denny comes out to join, then that's no ifs-or-buts about it, a charged conference. 

Let's turn this around, and say that Time is called due to an injury to his F6 on a play at 2B. Denny comes out to check on his F6. F2 and F1 are standing on the mound, observing. Is this a charged conference? No. Denny decides that the current F6 cannot continue, and calls for a Substitute. Substitute heads out, and gets a quick instruction from Denny. Denny escorts the replaced F6 off the field... now, at this point, if Denny directly interacts with F1, that is to be a charged conference (which is why we as Umpires need to be aware of this potentially happening)... if Denny, however, continues off the field without engaging his F1, and then the new F6, F1 and F2 have a quick discussion on what the set of signs are, that's to be allowed, and isn't a charged conference. The PU should direct F2 to get on back to the plate to resume the game. 

6 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

Is there an online link for the study guide?

If there is, it would be "hiding" or archived behind a firewall, paywall, or accredited login somewhere (eg. Arbiter). It would not be out in public circulation. 

As much friction as @Senor Azul and I might have, I do have to respect and appreciate how prompt and thorough he is on citations of rules, manuals (that he has access to), and guides. No one else on U-E has operated in that capacity, at least as long as I've been here (ca. 2011). 

[Jimurray]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:27 AM, MadMax said:

It’s only if a called Balk is followed by a pitch that we observe the results in regards to the Batter. Ball, called strike, swung strike, foul ball – we call Time and enforce the Balk penalty, emphasizing that the Batter returns to / remains at bat with no change in the count. If the Batter puts the pitch into play, then the Batter and all Runners must safely advance one base (any advance beyond this is at their peril) for the Balk to be nullified. 

Did you simplify a balk with a pitch to keep it short as a counterpoint? There are also the wild pitch, ball4, UTK possibilities where the balk could be ignored or just acknowledged.

[MadMax]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:07 PM, Jimurray said:

Did you simplify a balk with a pitch to keep it short as a counterpoint? There are also the wild pitch, ball4, UTK possibilities where the balk could be ignored or just acknowledged.

Yes, of course. My word count was rapidly escalating. 

[Replacematt]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:00 PM, MadMax said:

Once again, if Denny comes out to join, then that's no ifs-or-buts about it, a charged conference. 

You just called this prolonged. This is not a charged conference even if a coach joins. It's nothing unless it further delays the game. 

[TheRockawayKid]

On 2/17/2022 at 4:25 PM, Senor Azul said:

Is there an online link for the study guide? 

As far as I know there is not. I doubt that one would be allowed by the copyright holders. I own a copy of the 2019-2020 edition and the text I cite from the book is input by me—I type 50 wpm and even though that is not very fast it is still faster and easier than scanning.

In that case, is there a link to somewhere one can purchase this guide (if not this year, in future years)? Thanks! 

[Senor Azul]

I should have mentioned who the copyright holders are for this publication—the title page lists Referee and the National Association of Sports Officials (NASO). You can go to the website of Referee magazine using the following link which will take you directly to their baseball publications store. The current 2021-2022 NCAA Baseball Study Guide by George Demetriou is selling for $21.95.

https://store.referee.com/2021-22-study-guide-college-baseball-rules-2019-2020