Collision at the plate

[paulsimko]

Lets say the runner, scoring, crashes into the catcher (who does not have the ball and is obstructing). Can/would I have reason to eject the runner? does the level mater? if I DO eject him, does the run count (assuming he touched the plate after he/she knocked down the catcher?

[noumpere]

Lets say the runner, scoring, crashes into the catcher (who does not have the ball and is obstructing). Can/would I have reason to eject the runner? does the level mater? if I DO eject him, does the run count (assuming he touched the plate after he/she knocked down the catcher?

Yes.

Yes.

Depends on the level / rules set being used.

[paulsimko]

can you elaborate and maybe answer for ASA softball, High School (both baseball and softball) and little league..thanks

[blindumpire99]

Lets say the runner, scoring, crashes into the catcher (who does not have the ball and is obstructing). Can/would I have reason to eject the runner? does the level mater? if I DO eject him, does the run count (assuming he touched the plate after he/she knocked down the catcher?

Howdy Paul and welcome to the board..

The answers to your questions does matter depending on what rules sanctioning that you are working under OBR, FED, ect.

I will give you the answers based on the FED (high school) rules, base on your sitch as described:

1. yes. according to FED, you cannot simply crash the catcher.

2. yes, answered above in second sentence.

3. Under OBR the run would count. Under FED, if he crashed the catcher BEFORE scoring the run, it would NOT count, but it would if he took him out AFTER the crash.

[mstaylor]

I can answer baseball only.

OBR/LL/Fed If he has scored, eject him. If it's before the score call him out and eject him. In Fed if it's a force play, you may get the out even if he has scored.

[noumpere]

can you elaborate and maybe answer for ASA softball, High School (both baseball and softball) and little league..thanks

I can't help for softball or little league.

For FED baseball, if it's malicious contact, then the runner is ejected. He's out if the contact happened before he scored.

If it's not malicious contact (and you can have a "crash" that isn't), then it's just a train wreck.

[LMSANS]

ASA softball is essentially the same as above.

[PeteBooth]

Lets say the runner, scoring, crashes into the catcher (who does not have the ball and is obstructing). Can/would I have reason to eject the runner? does the level mater? if I DO eject him, does the run count (assuming he touched the plate after he/she knocked down the catcher?

OBR does not have a Malicious Contact rule. With the exception of PRO baseball no league that I umpire in uses what I call PURE OBR rules.

Therefore, for those leagues that are OBR based you need to look at the SAFETY rules.

Example: LL IMO has a joke of a safety rule 7.08(a-3) which states that the runner must attempt to get around a fielder who has the BALL and WAITING to make a tag. Notice 2 conditions MUST be present.

In your OP F2 did not have the ball so LL's 7.08(a-3) does not come into play.

Therefore, in LL the run counts EVEN if the MC occured before or after R3 touched the plate. Also, if you ruled OBS. The runner is awarded home. You then EJ the runner.

FED has an MC rule meaning if the MC occurred BEFORE R3 scored then we have an out and an EJ.

If the MC occured AFTER R3 scored run counts and the runner EJ'd

EXCEPTION: If we had a Force play situation then we have both R3 out as well as the BR and R3 is ejected.

NCAA has a no collission rule which is similar to FED, however, the NCAA allows for more contact then HS.

NOTE: In FED ONLY even if F2 obstructed R3 the MC Supercedes the OBS and no run scores

I cannot speak for softball.

Summary: For those leagues that are OBR based you need to look at their supplemental rules on safety in order to give you an accurate answer. I gave you the LL example.

FED - has an MC rule

College has a Collission rule

Some leagues ala Legion even though OBR based uses the NCAA FPSR as well as the Collision rule.

FWIW most leagues (except LL) which I umpire in have adopted FED's MC rule.

Pete Booth

[paulsimko]

thanks very much

[nolanadair]

You can eject the runner for malicious contact. If there was no play being made on the runner than he could of gone around the catcher, preventing any type of harm the player. If the catcher obstructed the runner than you would have obstruction and the run would score. There would be no need for the runner to run over the catcher. Depending on the circumstances, you could call the runner out if the collision happened before touching the plate.

[noumpere]

than he could of

I hate to be Mr. Grammar person, but c'mon.

[BT_Blue]

I hate to be Mr. Grammar person, but c'mon.

Then don's be. And since we are talking about grammar the word c'mon should be come on.

But honestly, does it really matter at all?

[SNIPERBBB]

LL has a lot of joke rules which is why I am trying to get my county league to go to something else since its not a sanctioned LL anyways.

FED softball, MC takes precedence over OBS.

In the cases that you have this happen, its usually partially the catcher's fault, and by association the coaches. They stand on the plate no matter where the ball is on the field and where the runners are or where they are going. When I notice it, I tell the HC to have the catcher not stand on the plate.

Had a kid in LL this year do a full lower the shoulder and launched into the catcher's upper chest. No chance of a play coming at all.

[frenchblue]

Had a kid in LL this year do a full lower the shoulder and launched into the catcher's upper chest. No chance of a play coming at all.

considering that is such a cheap shot, he is gone immediatly and must of been suspended for at least 5 games, right?

that is horrible in LL...just horrible :hopmad:

[frenchblue]

But honestly, does it really matter at all?

no it doesnt...who cares:smachhead:

[SNIPERBBB]

considering that is such a cheap shot, he is gone immediatly and must of been suspended for at least 5 games, right?

that is horrible in LL...just horrible

He got the standard 2 game suspension. Had to get the opposing coaches to stop from chipping at each other when the next batter came up.

Couple innings later we had a rain delay and one of the other kids on the EJ'd players team admitted doing the same thing at another game and nothing happened. Also noted that there was another kid in the vicinity of the dugout who I threw out 2 years ago for blowing up a catcher when he was out by 5 steps.:hopmad:

[willv28]

LL has a lot of joke rules which is why I am trying to get my county league to go to something else since its not a sanctioned LL anyways.

Had a kid in LL this year do a full lower the shoulder and launched into the catcher's upper chest. No chance of a play coming at all.

I'd be disappointed if he wasn't suspended, or kicked out of the league if it's bad enough. The part that makes it a joke is it's not really a MC rule to begin with. The point being that it doesn't matter if the contact happened before or after touching the plate, the run counts and you can't call the runner out for UC. It doesn't mean they can't be ejected just the same and then, hopefully, severely punished by the league. I'm sure it'll be changed/made stronger at some point.

Not sure which LL rules you personally find silly.

[SNIPERBBB]

1)Coaches cannot warm up pitchers ...hope your fields have lights

2)The little part that says there is no good reason to pay the umpires.

Couple others that I cannot remember right now and the book itself is poorly stylized. The FED books and some 1800's British literature books are more pleasant to read than the LL book.

[mstaylor]

LL has some strange rules, Fed has some strange rules, pretty much they all have an oddity here and there. No book, including OBR is perfect, so there is no real reason to complain.

As far as LL being hard to read, it is OBR with their age apropreate rules overlaid. I wish they wouldn't do it that way but it's not that big a deal. CR/BR does the same thing asa does Dixie I believe. Pony has the best rule set, they use OBR clean, then publish a second book that their Pony rules seperate. USSSA does the same as Pony. AAU uses Fed.

[willv28]

1)Coaches cannot warm up pitchers ...hope your fields have lights

2)The little part that says there is no good reason to pay the umpires.

Couple others that I cannot remember right now and the book itself is poorly stylized. The FED books and some 1800's British literature books are more pleasant to read than the LL book.

If you mean before the game. The coach can't conduct the warm-up themselves. They can observe a warm-up though. Not that big a deal. The players are just responsible for warming up.

#2 isn't a rule, it's just a philosophy, some of the time it's useful, other times no. Doesn't mean you couldn't pay your umpires or pay an association.

[sasmallen]

I think he's talking about coaches warming up pitchers between innings. Is there a LL rule against that?

[frenchblue]

I think he's talking about coaches warming up pitchers between innings. Is there a LL rule against that?

yes. only a player with a glove (doesn't have to be a catcher's glove when warming up), catcher's mask w/ a dangling throat guard, and an athletic supporter (doesn't have to be a cup) may warm up a pitcher.

[sasmallen]

yes. only a player with a glove (doesn't have to be a catcher's glove when warming up), catcher's mask w/ a dangling throat guard, and an athletic supporter (doesn't have to be a cup) may warm up a pitcher.

Thanks for the info. The young guys on the board probably won't get this, but as Johnny Carson used to say "I did not know that.".

[willv28]

Thanks for the info. The young guys on the board probably won't get this, but as Johnny Carson used to say "I did not know that.".

Is 28 too young to get that, because I got that.

[mstaylor]

I got that but I am by no means young. I remember when he came on at 11:15. :confused: