Hidden Ball Trick

[Guest David]

With the Hidden ball trick, when is it considered a balk on the pitcher? Just looking for some clarity...

[noumpere]

3 minutes ago, Guest David said:

With the Hidden ball trick, when is it considered a balk on the pitcher? Just looking for some clarity...

Depends on the rules code:

• FED: Within about 5' of the rubber
• NCAA: On the dirt
• OBR: On or astride the rubber

[SeeingEyeDog]

Nobidy asked me but...

The OBR should be the standard on all rule sets...even LL. Strikes and outs gets us home.

~Dawg

[Senor Azul]

If you are looking for any universal rules concerning the hidden ball trick—here’s one.

The ball must be live. Time must not be called after the previous play. That’s because by rule the only way to make the ball live again is for the pitcher to be on the rubber in possession of the ball. Often an umpire will grant time after a play so the runner or even the umpire can reset. The hidden ball trick is no longer possible after that timeout.

Another aspect I think is universal about this play is that a pitcher cannot place a rosin bag in his glove with, in the umpire’s judgment, the intent of deceiving the runner. In OBR it is a balk; I am not sure about FED and NCAA though.

OBR 6.02(a)(9)

If there is a runner or runners (on base), it is a balk when the pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitcher’s plate or while off the plate, he feints a pitch.

NFHS 6-2-5

It is also a balk if a runner or runners are on base and the pitcher, while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate, makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch, or he places his feet on or astride the pitcher’s plate, or positions himself within approximately five feet of the pitcher’s plate without having the ball.

NCAA 9-3-f

While not in possession of the ball, the pitcher stands with either foot or both feet on any part of the dirt area (circle) of the mound during a hidden-ball-play attempt.

[aaluck]

17 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

That’s because by rule the only way to make the ball live again is for the pitcher to be on the rubber in possession of the ball.

This is a very good point and for me brings up a question. In Fed three things have to happen before the ball can be put back in play:

1. Batter in the box

2. Catcher in his box (may no be a box in chalk, but in his "spot")

3. Pitcher on the rubber (assuming with the ball)

What if the PU doesn't know he does not have the ball and we have all of the above and he says 'play'? Say after a double and a time to remove all the 'batting armor' and put the pancakes on the hands.  I guess under Fed rules we have nothing. Just throw the ball to the pitcher and start over?

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

This is a very good point and for me brings up a question. In Fed three things have to happen before the ball can be put back in play:

1. Batter in the box

2. Catcher in his box (may no be a box in chalk, but in his "spot")

3. Pitcher on the rubber (assuming with the ball)

What if the PU doesn't know he does not have the ball and we have all of the above and he says 'play'? Say after a double and a time to remove all the 'batting armor' and put the pancakes on the hands.  I guess under Fed rules we have nothing. Just throw the ball to the pitcher and start over?

Same (with some exceptions on the specific requirements) under all codes -- if F1 doesn't have the ball, the ball was never really "live" despite PU's declaration.

[maven]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

What if the PU doesn't know he does not have the ball and we have all of the above and he says 'play'?

Don't do that.

(I'm saying that to the umpire, not F1—we should ALWAYS know where the ball is.)