Base runner at 3B stealing home

[Rawly]

Hello, 

Here is a scenario I'd like to get your input on.

Runner @ 3B breaks for home plate the pitcher steps off, throws home runner is called safe. 

Where does the batter need to be in order for it not to be interference?

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, Rawly said:

Hello, 

Here is a scenario I'd like to get your input on.

Runner @ 3B breaks for home plate the pitcher steps off, throws home runner is called safe. 

Where does the batter need to be in order for it not to be interference?

It's only interference if he interferes. He can be anywhere as long as he doesn't. And there is no safe haven.

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Rawly, the batter is not expected to move in your scenario. In fact, he is entitled to the space he occupies in the box i.e., if he is in his normal batting stance he is OK. He is expected, however, to recognize that the ball coming to the plate is a throw and not a pitch. The batter cannot interfere with the catcher’s try to field the throw by swinging at the throw and/or hitting the throw.

The NCAA rule says it best in its rule—

2019-2020 NCAA rule 7-11v. If the batter hits, or attempts to hit, a throw made to home plate by the pitcher who is not in contact with the pitching rubber, and is attempting to retire a runner stealing home, interference shall be called and the ball is dead.

PENALTY for v.—With two outs, the batter is out. With fewer than two outs, the runner shall be out.

For high school rules your play is actually listed in the Dead Ball Table in rule 5 (also see their 2019 Case Book play 7.3.5 Situation G)—

Item #25 from NFHS Dead Ball Table based on rule 5-1-1b  Interference by batter who hits throw from the pitcher, not in contact with pitcher’s plate when runner is advancing to home base

Penalty from NFHS rule 7-3-5 With less than two outs, the runner is out. Otherwise batter is out

[Senor Azul]

I have posted the following information at least five times before--

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (section 9.2.2, p. 174):  A batter is not required to vacate his batting position in order to avoid hindering a play at the plate. A batter who just holds his position in the batter’s box, without making any additional movement, should not be called out for interference unless his inaction is deemed intentional to interfere.

OBR Authoritative Opinion:  Evans:  The batter is obligated to avoid making ANY MOVEMENT which obstructs, impedes, or hinders the catcher’s play in any way. A swing which carries the batter over home plate and subsequently complicates the catcher’s play or attempted play should be ruled interference. Contact between the batter and catcher does not necessarily have to occur for interference to be ruled. Merely blocking the catcher’s vision to second base may very possibly be interference. (JEA/6:46)

Here is the FED case play telling us that a batter is entitled to the space he occupies in the box.

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.5 Situation E:  With less than two outs, R2 and B2 at the plate, R2 attempts to steal third. In the process, B2, who bats right-handed, after swinging or not swinging at the pitch, (a) makes no attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third or (b) is unable to make an attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third. As a result, F2 cannot make a play on the runner. Is B2 out, and must R2 return to second? RULING:  B2 is not guilty of interference in (a) or (b). B2 is entitled to his position in the batter’s box and is not subject to being penalized for interference unless he moves or re-establishes his position after F2 has received the pitch, which then prevents F2 from attempting to play on a runner. Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference.

[D- Money]

Taking the last part of the citation above "Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference" and applying it to the question asked about the runner trying to steal home leads me to ask. Failing to move so F2 can make a tag. Interference or not?

Can the batter just stand there, holding his position, and interfere?

 

 

[Richvee]

17 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Rawly, the batter is not expected to move in your scenario. In fact, he is entitled to the space he occupies in the box i.e., if he is in his normal batting stance he is OK. He is expected, however, to recognize that the ball coming to the plate is a throw and not a pitch. The batter cannot interfere with the catcher’s try to field the throw by swinging at the throw and/or hitting the throw.

FED says he cannot just stand there on the throw from the pitcher. The OP states this is not  a pitch.

SEC 3

ART. 5 . . . Interfere with the catcher's fielding or throwing by:

.....

d. failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

 

Yes, there's judgement involved as to weather or not you believe there was time for the batter to clear the area. For me, it's one of those plays that may be tough to describe but pretty easy when you see it. It's usually obvious if the batter had time to move, or if he's just hanging around the box to get ion F2's way.   

[Senor Azul]

Let’s take a closer look at this play. We have an in-contact pitcher, a batter in his normal stance, and a runner at third. The pitcher sees the runner from third break for the plate and the pitcher legally disengages the rubber and throws home to try to get that runner out.

Ordinarily, a legal pitch arrives at the catcher in less than half a second. With the pitcher stepping back and then throwing to the plate that time is going to be a bit longer, agreed? It still is only going to take 1-2 seconds for the ball to arrive—before the batter can move out of the way of a possible tag play he must first recognize that it is a throw and not a pitch. Is it reasonable to expect the batter to be able to move out of the way in that short a time span? I say no.

The rule Mr. Richvee cited is 2019 FED 7-3-5d but we need to also look at 7-3-5b and c—

Interfere with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by:

b. stepping out of the batter’s box

c. making any other movement, including follow-through interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher’s attempt to play on a runner, or

So, what we have now is a conundrum for the batter. He has to comply with rules 7-3-5b and c and yet somehow also comply with 7-3-5d as well—all within 2 seconds of the ball, runner, and catcher arriving. What’s the batter to do? What’s the best action to take and still not be penalized? I say his best solution is to not move and remain in his batting stance.

[beerguy55]

Let's look at it practically for a second.

First - a LHB, unless it's a really terrible throw, ain't gonna be in the way...and if somehow the throw is that bad that he somehow prevents the catcher from catching the throw, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the batter on whether or not he had reasonable time to get out of the way of a throw that should have been 3-6 feet away from him.

On a RHB - well, honestly, if he's still in the box he's more likely to get in the way of his own runner than the catcher - provided the throw is on point.  And unless the throw is sailing into the batter he really doesn't have to do much to be out of the way.   His natural reaction is going to step back away from the plate, away from the catcher.  But even if he just freezes, he's "doing" enough.

20 hours ago, D- Money said:

Taking the last part of the citation above "Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference" and applying it to the question asked about the runner trying to steal home leads me to ask. Failing to move so F2 can make a tag. Interference or not?

 

The catcher should be going to the plate, not the runner - the batter, if he stays still, will indeed be between R3 and F2, but will not be between F2 and the plate...if F2 goes to the plate and blocks the plate he'll get the runner.  Keep in mind the batter is also between R3 and the plate, so all things being equal, all things are equal...he's in both their way. 

When the pitcher steps off and then makes a snap throw home, the batter typically has under a second to process and react, especially if he doesn't know the steal is on.

Unless the batter reaction is to lean into the plate it's gonna pretty difficult to conclude that he didn't do all he "reasonably" could to stay out of the way.

[BobUmp]

I had something close to this happen in a HS Varsity Quarterfinal Playoff Game. I was plate, and final score was 1-0 Home team to advance... At the time it was the bottom of the 5th, 1-0 HT.

0 out, runners on 2nd and 3rd. Both teams struggling to puts hits together against the two starters. First batter, they attempt a squeeze, but the BR bunts a little pop-up up down the 1B line, and the catcher dives and catches it in foul territory, with both runners able to scramble back to their bases safely.

Next batter, second pitch they attempt a straight steal of home and 3rd: the pitcher does not step off but throws a fastball high and inside (the difference from the situation above). The batter does not attempt to swing but pivoted his body in the box a bit to avoid a HBP,  then stands his ground motionless as all hell breaks loose:

I check for illegal pitch -nope looked good to me- he set and stopped legally before he started the pitch

I check for the catcher maybe trying to move over the plate before receiving the pitch for catcher's interference - nope, the high and tight pitch made sure he was off the plate and in his legal area to receive the pitch

I freeze in my position, no time to remove my mask...

Catcher attempts the tag in front of the BR, and the R3 alters to come in behind the BR, between basically me and the BR and...

The BR pushes his butt and front elbow out to nudge the catcher trying to adjust to make the tag..

Catchers just misses tagging the runner,  but i call the interference, rule the R3 out, and return R2 to second...

The HC of HT must have  saw the interference or thought he was tagged, but asks for me to check with the crew for any balk (no stop) on the pitcher. I get the crew together and use the time to let the crowd settle down, poll the crew on both balk/no balk and my interference call and rulings, get the coaches together, explain the ruling (no balk, R3 out for out #2 and R2 back to second) and move on back to baseball, which also has the HT throw out a tagging up R3 at home in T6....

Here is a pic of the play (courtesy of a news website), just before the runner adjusts behind the BR and just before the BR gets his elbow out to prevent the tag from the catcher... he's already starting to interfere at this moment...

Second pic is the out at home on the Sac Fly..