They're 7 year olds!

[SnareDrum]

League: Spring Coach Pitch 7 (Recreational). Rules: OBR w/ modifications that are not important right now

This is my "For The Good of The Game" night (a whole other post on this coming soon). I spend most Friday nights either working the CP7 league or training our newbie blues in the basics of mechanics and common sense on the field. It's a great chance for me to "instruct" all involved about the game by my actions and deeds. It's absolutely the most fun I have in any given week... UNTIL...

The kids are 7, even 5 and 6 years old. Most have never played baseball before or are just in their second year with very few practices. Most of the CoachDads are also in the 1st or 2nd year as well. On a dirt infield, all of the bases AND the fielders are packed in and things can go from snoozer to insanity in an eyeblink.

With all that in mind, and remembering it's a rec league, it's for fun, etc, but a few of the teams are USSSA and really into it (and so are the CoachDads). How would you handle this? The infielders are new at this so they sometimes forget to play in front of or behind the basepath with runners on, and they sometimes don't notice that they're standing right on top of a base with a runner approaching. The runners, as they're advancing, sometimes have to go around F4 or F6 to get to 2nd or 3rd. So, the coaches yell out: "If they get in your way, knock them out the way! Just run over them!!" So I stopped the game right there and loudly announce to all fielders to try to avoid standing in the basepaths when there are runners. Couple of innings later, another runner goes around F8 to keep from plowing him. Again I hear, "Timmy, just push him! Knock him over if you have to!"

I know what the rules have for INT/OBS and MC but remember the league and the "Game". So in my plate pregame tonight, with my newbies right there, I'm telling every coach that if I see a runner intentionally run over a fielder, even if that fielder is in the way, the runner can be called out and he and the coach are probably gone; and if that's the chance they want to take on getting an OBS, so be it. I'll also warn that the fielders need to try to stay out of the way.

What would YOU do?

[gdpmumin]

We don't have umpires for coach pitch here, so I'm not sure how I would handle it in an actual game setting. But thinking through it as an academic exercise, here's how I think I would handle it. In our area, coach pitch is still considered instructional. They keep score, and there's a winner and a loser of each game, but it's considered instructional. With that in mind, I wouldn't have a problem ejecting a coach for explicitly ordering one of his players to make a move that could end in injury. I don't think I would eject the player the first time it happened, though, since he/she is simply following the coach's orders and at that level, that's all they know to do. If it happens again, though, that's a different story and I might go deeper into the instruction by ejecting the player and letting him learn the lesson the hard way.

I think for that level of play, covering the issue in a pre-game meeting is a great idea. It puts everyone on the same page.

[HokieUmp]

With all that in mind, and remembering it's a rec league, it's for fun, etc,

Just a sidebar: isn't it great that these are some of the same people that will yell at you during a game "It's about the KIDS, Blue!" And yet, as you go on to tell us, they're telling their players to commit little 7-YO versions of assault on each other. Nice.

I know what the rules have for INT/OBS and MC but remember the league and the "Game". So in my plate pregame tonight, with my newbies right there, I'm telling every coach that if I see a runner intentionally run over a fielder, even if that fielder is in the way, the runner can be called out and he and the coach are probably gone; and if that's the chance they want to take on getting an OBS, so be it. I'll also warn that the fielders need to try to stay out of the way.

What would YOU do?

In many cases, it's the old "players play, coaches coach, umpires umpire," but I don't have a problem with what you plan in this case.

Our association gets the Pinto games in PONY - coach pitch, not really umpiring. I'm not as enthusiastic about these games as other people in the association, but 1) I take what I'm assigned like a good soldier, and 2) if they're willing to pay me to do it, I'll do it. I always marvel at a league's willingness to pay us for 1 1/2 hours of fair/foul, safe/out calls - not even ball and strike decisions, since they get 5 pitches to hit it, and are out with 3 swinging strikes. I can only imagine it's because some of these same coaches couldn't get along well enough with each other to call games themselves, and needed a 3rd party.

[SnareDrum]

Also, we use this league as a "training ground" for our new umpires. We get to see right away if they can get start putting it all together so they can start moving up the food chain. True there are no ball/strikes, etc., but we can really tell who has "it" and who doesn't even with limited responsibilities. Even with an umpire though, it's amazing how much arguing the coaches will do among themselves anyway, even with me there! I average about 2 or 3 "Knock it off!"s every Friday.

Side note: As a their mentor, I do like the fact that I can pass along some knowledge and war stories to the new guys, and this year, new girls, while also fine tuning my skills and remembering what it was like to 7!

[Dragon29]

Having had almost this exact same scenario (same/similar age, but player-pitch) play out for me over a period of a few years when I first started, here's what I would recommend:

1) If you see a runner's vector change because of a fielder who hasn't got the ball, call OBS every time. Eventually, the players will get it (they really will, but only if you call it every time)

2) If you hear a manager or coach give the instruction to "run 'em over' (or whatever) stop the game at your earliest convenience, call both coaches over and tell them that if you hear that again, one or more of them will be spending time in the parking lot.

They will object. They will use all of the stupid lines we all know they're going to trot out, including (& this is my favorite) "Well, if you let the fielders stand there, what do you expect my runner to do?" (This one is always preceded by some horses#!t Asst. Coach telling me several times to "move the 2nd basemen; he's in my runner's way!") Re-iterate your warning and get back to the game.

I don't have a problem w/what you're planning on doing, though I agree that penalizing only the coaches first makes the most sense here.

I had to warn & eject only once after I started handling it like this. (I dumped both the coach & the kid; it was the player's 2nd offense that day)

[kylejt]

"Timmy, just push him! Knock him over if you have to!"

That would be encouraging unsportsmanlike conduct, wouldn't it? Pretty easy to deal with that.

"Hey coach, no more of that, please".

[mstaylor]

My take is simple. Don't warn them before the game. If a fielder is in the basepath and affects a baserunner, announce the obstruction, and let play continue. If the runner makes the protected base, tell the fielder he needs to keep out of the way. If a coach yells anything that instructs a player to roll a fielder, hit him or do anything else to injure him, call time at the end of play and loudly, DO NOT BRING THEM TOGETHER, tell the coach that it is unacceptable and will end his day if he does it again. If he does it again, dump him.

Now, I preach and preach that we can't take things from one game to the next, this an exception. Keep track of any that have been warned, any repeat the rest of the season gets no warning, dump him.

There will be the coach asking you to move fielders out of the baseline before the pitch. Explain he is allowed to be there, but you will take care of any obstruction that occurs. By the same token, enforce any interference if the fielder is in the act of fielding.

[jjb]

We had a lot of it a while ago. Here's how we handled it.

You walk over, look the coach in the eye, and tell him "You've just instructed a 7-year old child to deliberately injure another 7 year old child. Leave the ballpark immediately". No warnings, nothing. You don't address "Yeah, but.."s, or, "well. how is he supposed to.."'s. None of that. You stay with the topic: an adult instructing a kid to injure another kid is simply not tolerated in our league.. I mean, suppose the coach tells him to "knock him over", you "warn" the coach, and, the next play, the kid takes out the second baseman's knee? You can't blame the kid, he did what he was told to do: you can;t blame the coach, you have "handled" the issue (by vigorously wagging your finger at him).: Meanwhile, we've got a 7 year old getting his knee scoped, and some truly tourqued-off parents. Who's really looking bad here?

I haven't seen one of these in a while...

[yawetag]

I mean, suppose the coach tells him to "knock him over", you "warn" the coach, and, the next play, the kid takes out the second baseman's knee? You can't blame the kid, he did what he was told to do: you can;t blame the coach, you have "handled" the issue (by vigorously wagging your finger at him).:

Hopefully, when you verbally tell the coach (loudly so everyone hears it), all the coaches, all the players, and all the parents understand it's not going to be tolerated. When it does happen after your warning, you eject the coach and the player.

Meanwhile, we've got a 7 year old getting his knee scoped, and some truly tourqued-off parents. Who's really looking bad here?

Not you, as long as you handled it somehow. Certainly, if you stood there and did nothing, you'll look bad.

[bpate]

Coach's perspective.

One of the teams that I am coaching is a 7u coach pitch team. We deal with this (obs) constantly. I have preached this to my infield from day 1. If you aren't making a play, get out of the way. Some of the kids are starting to get it while others likely won't. Unfortunately, the other coaches don't seem to be teaching this at all. At times, you'll have 2 kids standing on top of 2nd with a base runner trying to "round" second and go for third. As a coach, I would certainly appreciate strict enforcement of obs even at this age. If you call it, the coaches would be more inclined to teach it. ex. I coached a 7u basketball team this past season and spent 0 time on 3 second violation --- UNTIL--- we got called for it 10 times in the first game. I can assure you that we spent time on it after that. Enforce the rules and the rest will take care of itself.