Balk to 2B?

[loftisc]

R2, P in set position, Fed rules. P uses a jump turn, landing with both feet in front of and parallel to the rubber. Without further moving his feet, throws to 2B. Balk?

 

He can feint or not throw without penalty. But can he throw to 2B without stepping toward 2B? My call was “that’s a balk!”

 

Opinions?

 

 

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[blue23ll]

It is virtually impossible to balk on a throw to 2b, unless the pitcher makes a move toward the plate, or hesitates in the move to 2b.  Without seeing this actual move, its very hard to answer your question, but the odds are it's not a balk. 

[loftisc]

It is virtually impossible to balk on a throw to 2b, unless the pitcher makes a move toward the plate, or hesitates in the move to 2b.  Without seeing this actual move, its very hard to answer your question, but the odds are it's not a balk. 

P did not step toward 2B when he threw. Change your mind?


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[blue23ll]

Did his feet shift positions? 

[Stan W.]

where have you gone Tim Christensen?.......................(author of IIITBTS)

[Jimurray]

28 minutes ago, blue23ll said:

Did his feet shift positions? 

Some umps? Interps? require the free foot to land behind the rubber. 

[Tborze]

1 hour ago, blue23ll said:

It is virtually impossible to balk on a throw to 2b, unless the pitcher makes a move toward the plate, or hesitates in the move to 2b.  Without seeing this actual move, its very hard to answer your question, but the odds are it's not a balk. 

If the pitcher makes a move toward the plate, it's a balk because he didn't deliver the pitch. 

If he hesitates in his delivery, it's a balk because he failed to pitch or throw in one continuous motion, without interruption or hesitation.

IIITBTSB still in tact. 

Sounds like a balk in the OP.  Failing to step directly toward the base when feinting or throwing.

[blue23ll]

28 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Some umps? Interps? require the free foot to land behind the rubber. 

The traditional gauge for 'stepping toward the base' is the 45 degree line, which generally refer to throws to 1st or 3rd. So, what do we use to gauge whether there was a step to 2b? The fact of the matter is a pitcher doesn't have to step toward 2nd. 

 

[Tborze]

21 minutes ago, blue23ll said:

The traditional gauge for 'stepping toward the base' is the 45 degree line, which generally refer to throws to 1st or 3rd. So, what do we use to gauge whether there was a step to 2b? The fact of the matter is a pitcher doesn't have to step toward 2nd. 

 

The gauge is the non pivot foot needs to land toward 2nd base. In the OP the pivot foot either landed toward first or third. 

6-2-4b doesn't say "failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base, except 2nd". 

[Tborze]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Some umps? Interps? require the free foot to land behind the rubber. 

Wouldn't that be kinda difficult if the pitcher threw from the stretch before coming set?  

[maven]

4 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Wouldn't that be kinda difficult if the pitcher threw from the stretch before coming set?  

Difficult or not, a step toward second is required by rule ahead of a throw or feinted throw to 2B (including a throw not to the base).

If his free foot leaves its footprint and moves toward 2B during the jump turn, I'm not getting too technical with where it lands.

[Tborze]

8 minutes ago, maven said:

Difficult or not, a step toward second is required by rule ahead of a throw or feinted throw to 2B (including a throw not to the base).

If his free foot leaves its footprint and moves toward 2B during the jump turn, I'm not getting too technical with where it lands.

I was referring to the free foot needing to land behind the rubber. Never heard that before. 

@maven. I am looking for a ruling on a play. Can I PM you?

[blue23ll]

23 minutes ago, maven said:

Difficult or not, a step toward second is required by rule ahead of a throw or feinted throw to 2B (including a throw not to the base).

If his free foot leaves its footprint and moves toward 2B during the jump turn, I'm not getting too technical with where it lands.

This topic has be debated for at least a decade, that I am aware of, on various forums. As you state, if his free foot moves toward second base ( and it doesn't have to be pointing AT 2b), I would have a problem calling that a balk. In the OP, it sounded like the feet just exchanged positions on the jump turn, which is movement of the free foot toward 2b, in my view. Odds are, if a balk is called on a move to 2b, it's not because of anything related to him not taking a step. 

 

[BT_Blue]

2 hours ago, Stan W. said:

where have you gone Tim Christensen?.......................(author of IIITBTS)

From what I have heard, Tim is back working with the group in Portland again. He had fallen on hard times after hanging up the gear. But sounds like he is back on his feet and in charge of training.

[blue23ll]

4 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

From what I have heard, Tim is back working with the group in Portland again. He had fallen on hard times after hanging up the gear. But sounds like he is back on his feet and in charge of training.

I was just looking at some old posts by Tim too!

[blue23ll]

Disregard this, I moved it to the proper spot.

 

So a follow-up question. I have  black and silver Diamond iX3 masks with Team Wendy pads.  They are light and comfortable to wear. My question, what would be the cost/benefit of going to titanium, magnesium or other alloy metals? Is an ounce or two less weight worth $100 or more dollars? Is the protection level that much better??

Edited April 21, 2018 by blue23ll

[Richvee]

As mentioned, a jump turn towards 2B with the F1's feet basically "switching positions", I would consider a step towards 2B, regardless of which side of the rubber the free foot lands on.

Now, the argument over the free foot landing behind the rubber comes into play when F1 has come set, lifts his free foot and puts it down, still on the HP side of the rubber, but a little closer to his pivot foot, and feints or throws to 2B.  Many highly respected umpires here have said they would balk this, and I agree. To me, this means his free foot has moved more towards 1B or 3B than 2B.