Accidental Appeal

[beerguy55]

R2.  Little flare at middle of infield, F6 comes across, catches the ball and trips over second base, while R2 is still five or six steps off the base.  In the umpire's judgment this was not an obvious appeal attempt.  Does the umpire say or do anything to indicate that no appeal attempt has been made?

If F6, while lying on the ground five feet from the base, says "runner didn't tag up" or "that was an appeal" or "I touched the base", do you grant the appeal, or does F6 need to get back to second base in time to complete an intentional appeal.

[Aging_Arbiter]

2 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

R2.  Little flare at middle of infield, F6 comes across, catches the ball and trips over second base, while R2 is still five or six steps off the base.  In the umpire's judgment this was not an obvious appeal attempt.  Does the umpire say or do anything to indicate that no appeal attempt has been made?

I've got a catch.........that's all.

If F6, while lying on the ground five feet from the base, says "runner didn't tag up" or "that was an appeal" or "I touched the base", do you grant the appeal, or does F6 need to get back to second base in time to complete an intentional appeal.

NOW.............I've got an appeal and an out.

 

I'm not going to judge unfortunate judgement as to where the base was in relation to his feet while focusing on the ball.  But if the player knows what to say to the umpire, then maybe the trip was to ensure he touched the bag.

[noumpere]

1) That wasn't a play (in the umpire;s judgment), so no call is needed.

2) The appeal must be obvious at the time it is made -- doing so  (well) after the fact does not count.

(I am taking your word "trips over second" at face value -- any sort of stutter step, or change of direction, or sticking the foot out could / wouold be enough for me to judge this to be obvious)

[beerguy55]

10 minutes ago, noumpere said:

1) That wasn't a play (in the umpire;s judgment), so no call is needed.

2) The appeal must be obvious at the time it is made -- doing so  (well) after the fact does not count.

(I am taking your word "trips over second" at face value -- any sort of stutter step, or change of direction, or sticking the foot out could / wouold be enough for me to judge this to be obvious)

Yes, I'm envisioning where he literally did trip over the base in the course of the catch (but after completing the catch), focused on catching the ball rather than completing an appeal (of course, you'll never really know what was in his mind) - but after he has tripped over the base he knows R2 didn't tag up, and F6 also knows he's already touched the base, so he says "I touched the base".   

 

[maven]

45 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

but after he has tripped over the base he knows R2 didn't tag up, and F6 also knows he's already touched the base, so he says "I touched the base".

OBR 5.09(c) Comment is instructive: "An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal."

Because it is not an appeal, it doesn't retroactively become an appeal when F6 remarks that the runner failed to retouch.

[Mussgrass]

So should the umpire say or do anything to indicate that #2 is not a valid appeal? Or should he wait to see what develops and then explain as necessary to the HC's?

[noumpere]

9 minutes ago, Mussgrass said:

So should the umpire say or do anything to indicate that #2 is not a valid appeal? Or should he wait to see what develops and then explain as necessary to the HC's?

If action is relaxed, then tell F6 that you'll need him to make a valid appeal before you can answer that question.  If action is not relaxed, then don't say anything.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Mussgrass said:

So should the umpire say or do anything to indicate that #2 is not a valid appeal?

Everything that every participant does in a game (other than valid appeals) is not a valid appeal. Handle this the same way.

[lawump]

On 7/10/2017 at 2:39 PM, maven said:

Everything that every participant does in a game (other than valid appeals) is not a valid appeal. Handle this the same way.

I believe it was @maven who taught me the phrase (in a prior thread), "you can have an accidental force, but you can't have an accidental appeal!"

(Correct me if I'm wrong!)