Can we rectify this?

[LittleBlue]

I'm PU. Adult rec, R2, 0 outs. BR hits a single that brings R2 home. Throw comes home, but is late. F2 fires to second as a slow BR tries to stretch his single into a double. Initial tag attempt misses as BR dances around it and slides past 2B. F4 dives to tag BR as BR tries to dive back to 2B. My partner hesitates but then calls out. BR is incensed and claims that he was never tagged. No one on his team comes out to argue. My partner just kept saying he can't get help and that's BR is out. We moved on. A few innings later my partner came to me and asked what I had on the play. I said it was hard to tell from 3BLX. He said he ruled him out for being out of the baseline because he overslid 2B. I asked if the fielder tagged him off the base and he said no. I told him that the runner shouldn't be called out of the baseline unless a play is made on him and he deviates more than 3 feet left or right. He said OK. My question is if my partner came to me and asked if the BR was out of the baseline could I overturn his call? Could he even appeal this to me?

[maven]

Not a few innings later. When he makes the call, he can ask you for info, and he can change his call at that point.

You may not overrule him.

[LittleBlue]

That's what I meant. If he came to me right after the call could I give him the info to change his call? Is this a call that he can come to me to get information from was my question. I mean I guess you could come to me for help on a judgement call but you probably wouldn't and shouldn't. Is this a call that he should come to me for help on or should he own the call? I had no problem giving him my input if he wanted it, but I probably would offer much input if he wanted help on a tag/no tag play.

[grayhawk]

This is a rules (mis)interpretation.  He can definitely come to you for help and use that information to render a final decision.

[Mister B]

I always thought that was part of asking for help. If the tag was made, and you clearly saw it, there is really no reason to ask for help. But if it involves the rules, it's probably better to have a second opinion. 

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, LittleBlue said:

I'm PU. Adult rec,

No, we can't rectify that. 

[GPblue]

I had a similar situation 2 weekends ago.  R1 gets picked off and into a run down.  On his way back into first I have him making a move and a swipe tag.  The defense wants him out of running lane (I could have had it, but ruled where he established himself before a play was being made on him he was fine).  They wanted me to go down to my partner for that, which I know I can't.  During the running lane they were still asking about the swipe tag, so I was able to go down to my partner about that.  I go down and first thing my partner says is "I can't help you on the running lane." Which I respond "I know that, I am here on the swipe tag"  He had the same thing I did and we moved on.

[stl_ump]

17 hours ago, LittleBlue said:

I'm PU. Adult rec, R2, 0 outs. BR hits a single that brings R2 home. Throw comes home, but is late. F2 fires to second as a slow BR tries to stretch his single into a double. Initial tag attempt misses as BR dances around it and slides past 2B. F4 dives to tag BR as BR tries to dive back to 2B. My partner hesitates but then calls out. BR is incensed and claims that he was never tagged. No one on his team comes out to argue. My partner just kept saying he can't get help and that's BR is out. We moved on. A few innings later my partner came to me and asked what I had on the play. I said it was hard to tell from 3BLX. He said he ruled him out for being out of the baseline because he overslid 2B. I asked if the fielder tagged him off the base and he said no. I told him that the runner shouldn't be called out of the baseline unless a play is made on him and he deviates more than 3 feet left or right. He said OK. My question is if my partner came to me and asked if the BR was out of the baseline could I overturn his call? Could he even appeal this to me?

Really?

No wonder Coaches get a bit peeved at some umpires.

[LittleBlue]

@stl_ump yep. I though that he ruled him out because he was tagged off the base as the BR was adamant that he was not tagged. He never explained his ruling to the BR, only to me a few innings later. 

[lawump]

Someone needs a rule book and casebook on the back of his latrine that he needs to read each day while doing his duty. 

 

[stl_ump]

4 hours ago, lawump said:

Someone needs a rule book and casebook on the back of his latrine that he needs to read each day while doing his duty. 

 

Exactly!  The latrine is what made me the umpire I am today!

[blue23ll]

I have most of Carl's books in the 'library' and some Referee magazines too.

[Rich Ives]

8 hours ago, blue23ll said:

I have most of Carl's books in the 'library' and some Referee magazines too.

Referee has a reputation for bad calls.

[blue23ll]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Referee has a reputation for bad calls.

I have never seen a magazine blow a call. 

[noumpere]

6 hours ago, blue23ll said:

I have never seen a magazine blow a call. 

They often have incorrect rulings in the quizzes and columns. Carl has some, too.  And, Ive personally never found much helpful from any of their books.  Some of the DVDs are good (the one they sell from IAABO for basketball is good, for example).  Same with Carl -- although his BRD is a good reference, I think it['s hard to read it to learn anything.

 

And, to be fair, the same with all of us here and on other forums..

[blue23ll]

The BRD is probably the most valuable book I have ever read. I really don't use Referee for rule interpretations, but mostly for reading about the mental aspects of officiating. There is a lot to learn from reading about how situations are handled in different sports. Game management is something you can never learn enough about.