Route in crowded field on overthrow From F3 in A

[udbrky]

Here's a pic:

 

I'm Star, Ball is circle. F3 goes for ball towards 2B a little, but not far. I chose to stay a little in fair territory, rather than going foul on this particular play. F4 is coming over to possibly field as well. F1 covers 1B and F3 throws badly and it gets past F1. BR is B, he is fairly fast in a men's league game and is going to 2nd. This isn't exactly drawn to scale, cause my MS Paint skills aren't that great.

But I've got 3 players in between 2nd and I, and no matter where I go, I have to let them pass. I chose to come inside after BR passed, but I think staying outside and just having to navigate F3 and F4 would've been better. Also, moving into Foul territory probably would've been a better move beforehand, but F3 went far enough to his right that I thought I was ok in fair.

 

Any suggestions for these situations?

[Replacematt]

I never say never, but never go foul in 2-man. 

Let's think about this in the context of this particular play. Had you gone foul, you would have had the ball coming right at you (making it a horrible angle for the call)--and had you not been in the way of the initial throw, you would have been in the way of a fielder getting to the ball or then in the path of the throw from foul territory.

This is one of those plays where you just have to do what you can. Having the benefit of processing it, I would have cut in like you did, but instead of pivoting and moving towards second, I'd have gone straight across the infield to get an angle on any play there. Staying outside means that you're still asses and elbows on the play at second unless you can miraculously beat the ball there.

The other thing is to read the throw...as soon as I read a throw that's going to get by whoever's covering first, I start to move into the infield, keeping chest to ball.

[udbrky]

Thanks. I've only gone foul like 2x. I thought about that very thing - getting in the way. 

My quick assessment on going outside made me think that same thing - I'm going to be looking through on a tag.

It was going to be a bang bang play, so I didn't have much time to read it was going to be bad and go

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, udbrky said:

I'm Star,

We'll be the judge of that. 

 

If you wait for B to pass you, you're screwed, no matter whether you go inside or outside.  Inside is better in case B tries for third, but if you get stuck, at least be moving to second as quickly as you can.

[udbrky]

Yeah, but with B going to 2nd, and F3 and F4 moving to 1B line, there just wasn't much space and time. Ideally I'd like to get in front of him and go to ahead of the play, it just wasn't probably going to happen.

[noumpere]

It comes with experience.  If the play is close, then B is hustling hard through the base -- he won't be able to turn immediately, so you can get inside him.  If the play isn't close, then you have time to read the throw the same as B, and get inside him.  The key is to recognize the likelihood of a poor throw as quickly as possible to be ready to move.  This is NOT a pause, read, react situation (although you also do not want to move too early and then have whoever is covering the bag make some spectacular play that you can't see clearly because you are moving.)

[maineump]

Like said above, never go to foul territory in 2-man - it really puts you behind the play and you add another person to work around (base coach).

Another option on this is to stay deeper as you come in (towards 2B) and get the angle on the play. Basically instead of angling in for the call - go straight across from your starting position or even a little towards the grass/dirt line.  You need to read this early. This helps you to get to 2B if the runner continues and allows you more room to adjust if you don't have to bust in.

A thing that guys can mess up on is to watch the ball on the overthrow. If the ball is in foul territory, then the PU needs to cover that. So, if you see the overthrow, think 2B and get inside for either the play at 2B or the play back into 1B.

This does take practice, but you can do it.

[udbrky]

Thanks, definitely a lot of useful things to think about here.

[Jimurray]

Normally the PU would take 2B in the rare case if you went foul. Sometimes your partner might be able to read you being pinned other than being foul and take 2B for you. Communicating is required as BU then has the overthrow.

[lawump]

34 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Normally the PU would take 2B in the rare case if you went foul. Sometimes your partner might be able to read you being pinned other than being foul and take 2B for you. Communicating is required as BU then has the overthrow.

When I was an MiLB umpire working 2-man in the late '90's...the base umpire could go into foul territory if he was "pressured" by F3 or F4.  However, if there was an overthrow and the B/R went to second base, the BU had to figure a way to get into position to make that call at second.

Now, however, it is acceptable...per the fairly recent changes to MiLB's two-man mechanics...for the PU to take the B/R into second base and for the BU to take the ball.

The key is to pre-game it.  I'm personally in the position as a veteran that in 99.5% of my two-man games, I can pretty much dictate how we're going to handle it.  If you're not in that position, just discuss it with your partner.  You can cite the MiLB two-man mechanics manual if they have never heard of this.

[MadMax]

With how proactively and aggressively high level teams employ a shift in today's game, a smoked grounder getting by F3 may now be fielded by a deep, ranging F4 mere feet from the 1BL. Obviously, MLB has the benefit of 4-man rotations and responsibilities. So where are we as a BU in 2-man to go in a situation like this?

[Gfoley4]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

With how proactively and aggressively high level teams employ a shift in today's game, a smoked grounder getting by F3 may now be fielded by a deep, ranging F4 mere feet from the 1BL. Obviously, MLB has the benefit of 4-man rotations and responsibilities. So where are we as a BU in 2-man to go in a situation like this?

If you were fast enough, I suppose you could run past F3 when he goes to cover first and go past the throwing lane between F4 and F3 and get your angle. But, if F3 stumbles and/or F1 comes into the picture, this could go south fast. 

[umpire_scott]

I'd also be worried about being in the way of the throw if I came inside.  I'd think if it was going to be a bang-bang play though you'd probably have time to get inside if you followed close behind the runner.

[udbrky]

OT, but did Big City (or Holliday) have to use the bathroom mid-inning? What's about 6' in front of the 1B cutout?