Runner Interference

[Guest Umpire]

I think I got this one right. Legion ball so OBR. R1, one out. Grounder to SS, r1 has good jump and beats the throw to second and is safe on force play. This is turf and R1 over slides the base and on his pop up makes contact with F4 attempting throw to 1st. Since R1 was initially safe on force and was not tagged after coming off base and was still a live runner I call play dead, call R1 out for interference and keep BR at 1st. 

Did I make the right call?

[Replacematt]

Just now, Guest Umpire said:

I think I got this one right. Legion ball so OBR. R1, one out. Grounder to SS, r1 has good jump and beats the throw to second and is safe on force play. This is turf and R1 over slides the base and on his pop up makes contact with F4 attempting throw to 1st. Since R1 was initially safe on force and was not tagged after coming off base and was still a live runner I call play dead, call R1 out for interference and keep BR at 1st. 

Did I make the right call?

Nope. Legion uses the NCAA force-play slide rule, in which contact beyond the base and pop-up slides are legal.

[NickG]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Nope. Legion uses the NCAA force-play slide rule, in which contact beyond the base and pop-up slides are legal.

The fact that the slide was legal doesn't necessarily mean that the call was incorrect. If the runner made contact with the fielder attempting to throw to 1B, you can still judge interference. Had to be there, of course, but I would not say with certainty that the call was incorrect.

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, NickG said:

The fact that the slide was legal doesn't necessarily mean that the call was incorrect. If the runner made contact with the fielder attempting to throw to 1B, you can still judge interference. Had to be there, of course, but I would not say with certainty that the call was incorrect.

Given the info in the OP, the call was incorrect. The contact was legal based on that info.

Every call is HTBT. If we hide behind that, then there's no reason for this forum.

[NickG]

Not hiding. The OP says there was contact with the fielder. That could be interference; in fact, a fair chance that it was. You can certainly have interference with a legal slide. Entirely a judgement call.  

[Replacematt]

4 minutes ago, NickG said:

Not hiding. The OP says there was contact with the fielder. That could be interference; in fact, a fair chance that it was. You can certainly have interference with a legal slide. Entirely a judgement call.  

Actually, you cannot have interference with a legal slide unless there was some other action that hindered the fielder. Being there was none in the OP, this was legal.

[NickG]

But the OP states that he made contact with the fielder. That's definitely "some other action" that may (or may not) have hindered the fielder. Not to belabor this, but I simply disagree with the certainty that no interference took place. It certainly could have given the OP.

[Replacematt]

Just now, NickG said:

But the OP states that he made contact with the fielder. That's definitely "some other action" that may (or may not) have hindered the fielder. Not to belabor this, but I simply disagree with the certainty that no interference took place. It certainly could have given the OP.

No, it's not. Contact happens all the time, especially on pop-up slides. Again, contact does not mean interference. He would have to do something other than a legal slide for this to be the case.

[NickG]

Okay, I should have checked my NCAA book before weighing in. You're quite right: NCAA 8-4-a, b, c.  Some days we teach, some days we learn.

[maven]

7 hours ago, Guest Umpire said:

I think I got this one right. Legion ball so OBR. R1, one out. Grounder to SS, r1 has good jump and beats the throw to second and is safe on force play. This is turf and R1 over slides the base and on his pop up makes contact with F4 attempting throw to 1st. Since R1 was initially safe on force and was not tagged after coming off base and was still a live runner I call play dead, call R1 out for interference and keep BR at 1st. 

Did I make the right call?

The correctness of the call for Legion has already been covered: this contact is legal in NCAA.

In FED, this would be a FPSR violation. The fact that the runner was safe on the force play is moot: R1 would be out for the FPSR violation, and we'd call the BR out as well as part of the standard FPSR penalty.

I hope someone who is familiar with the new OBR slide rules will comment on whether this play is legal per that code.

[Mad Mike]

I took this straight out of the MLB Rule Book (page 70):

(j) (7.14) Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts If a runner does not engage in a bona fide slide, and initiates (or attempts to make) contact with the fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play, he should be called for interference under this Rule 6.01. A “bona fide slide” for purposes of Rule 6.01 occurs when the runner: (1) begins his slide (i.e., makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base; (2) is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot;  (3) is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and (4) slides within reach of the base without changing his pathway for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder. A runner who engages in a “bona fide slide” shall not be called for interference under this Rule 6.01, even in cases where the runner makes contact with the fielder as a consequence of a permissible slide. In addition, interference shall not be called where a runner’s contact with the fielder was caused by the fielder being positioned in (or moving into) the runner’s legal pathway to the base. Notwithstanding the above, a slide shall not be a “bona fide slide” if a runner engages in a “roll block,” or intentionally initiates (or attempts to initiate) contact with the fielder by elevating and kicking his leg above the fielder’s knee or throwing his arm or his upper body. If the umpire determines that the runner violated this Rule 6.01(j), the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter-runner out. Note, however, that if the runner has already been put out then the runner on whom the defense was attempting to make a play shall be declared out

[dookiexman]

13 hours ago, Guest Umpire said:

I think I got this one right. Legion ball so OBR. R1, one out. Grounder to SS, r1 has good jump and beats the throw to second and is safe on force play. This is turf and R1 over slides the base and on his pop up makes contact with F4 attempting throw to 1st. Since R1 was initially safe on force and was not tagged after coming off base and was still a live runner I call play dead, call R1 out for interference and keep BR at 1st. 

Did I make the right call?

The way I read this, the runner is not on a pop-up slide. He slid beyond the base, then "popped-up", making contact with F4. I've got interference all day on this. The initial safe from the force out is nothing. 

Only difference (and this is HTBT) is did the interference stop the put out of the BR? Yes, get two here, otherwise, you end up with exactly what you called.

Using @Mad Mike's posting of the bona fide slide rule #3  is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide. OP description says he did not remain on the base after completion of the slide.

[ALStripes17]

The way I read this, the runner is not on a pop-up slide. He slid beyond the base, then "popped-up", making contact with F4. I've got interference all day on this. The initial safe from the force out is nothing. 

Only difference (and this is HTBT) is did the interference stop the put out of the BR? Yes, get two here, otherwise, you end up with exactly what you called.

Using @Mad Mike's posting of the bona fide slide rule #3  is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide. OP description says he did not remain on the base after completion of the slide.

'Able and attempts to remain on the base' is a different standard of proof and doesn't match up with your statement of 'he did not remain on the base...'

He doesn't have to stay there. Just has to be able and try to. Thats not distinctive in the description of the OP

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, dookiexman said:

The way I read this, the runner is not on a pop-up slide. He slid beyond the base, then "popped-up", making contact with F4. I've got interference all day on this. The initial safe from the force out is nothing. 

What part of the NCAA rule makes this illegal? You can make contact beyond the bag, and you can make contact on a pop-up slide. It doesn't say it can only be one or the other.

[dookiexman]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

What part of the NCAA rule makes this illegal? You can make contact beyond the bag, and you can make contact on a pop-up slide. It doesn't say it can only be one or the other.

OP says "Legion ball so OBR"...I wasn't going with NCAA rules.

[Replacematt]

Just now, dookiexman said:

OP says "Legion ball so OBR"...I wasn't going with NCAA rules.

Read my first response.

[dookiexman]

Just now, Matt said:

Read my first response.

oops, got it...thanks

[noumpere]

58 minutes ago, Matt said:

What part of the NCAA rule makes this illegal? You can make contact beyond the bag, and you can make contact on a pop-up slide. It doesn't say it can only be one or the other.

I agree with you, but I think the rule book includes a phrase to the effect of "pop up slide on the base"

[grayhawk]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

I agree with you, but I think the rule book includes a phrase to the effect of "pop up slide on the base"

A.R. If contact occurs on top of the base as a result of a “pop-up” slide, this contact is legal.