Sometimes they just gotta go...

[clasonater]

I'm in A partner at the plate, short hop to third base, coach thought it should have been a foul ball off the foot.  Partner comes to me for help, I do not have a foul ball.  Coach starts chewing me between innings (after me and my partner got together, this is a no-no)  I gave him every opportunity to shut up, but continued, so I tossed him.  I tried to make it a whole year without without an ejection, but it will have to wait till next year.  I did make it 80 games though (high school and higher, with the exception of about four tournament daddy-ball games).  Sometimes, they just gotta go. 

[VolUmp]

I have a stern HAND signal that means STOP OR YOU'RE GONE that I use for situations like this.  I'm known for it.  He never would have gotten close enough to argue with me between innings.  It's precisely the signal I use when a coach appeals a half swing, I go to my partner, he calls it a strike, and the offensive coach starts to come out of the dugout ...

"STOP!  THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSION.  YOU'D BE ARGUING BALLS & STRIKES."  SIMPLE.

[HCueds]

I've started to use that stern hand signal with coaches/managers who know what they're doing and boy does that stop them. 

I told a coach that I already warned I was trying to keep him in the game (only us two could hear it) & being that it was the last inning. And he decided to use his big boy outside voice and responded "keep me in this game? I'M TRYING TO KEEP YOU IN THIS GAME, You're..."

sometimes they just gotta go

[Jimurray]

On June 11, 2016 at 2:48 AM, clasonater said:

I'm in A partner at the plate, short hop to third base, coach thought it should have been a foul ball off the foot.  Partner comes to me for help, I do not have a foul ball.  Coach starts chewing me between innings (after me and my partner got together, this is a no-no)  I gave him every opportunity to shut up, but continued, so I tossed him.  I tried to make it a whole year without without an ejection, but it will have to wait till next year.  I did make it 80 games though (high school and higher, with the exception of about four tournament daddy-ball games).  Sometimes, they just gotta go. 

Most of us brief that if BU has it foul he will give it. If asked to go for help the PU will tell the coach that there is no need, my partner would have called it if he had it..

[clasonater]

Jimurray, Hcueds, sorry for taking awhile to respond.  Normally, that's how I try to do it, but I remember this one.  My partner (an inexperienced one) came to me.  I didn't want to wave him off and be that guy.  We talked about it after.  Also, he's one of those local coaches we see probably 20 times a summer.  So it was one of those "Dave, don't do it... Dave... ejection."  Not an excuse, but my partner should have got him and I ended up with his mess minding my own business out in the field.  I do remember that he wouldn't leave sight and sound so I pulled out some verbal judo that I'd been working on and he left.  I got a compliment from a parent after the game. 

[lawump]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:48 AM, clasonater said:

I tried to make it a whole year without without an ejection, but it will have to wait till next year.  I did make it 80 games though (high school and higher, with the exception of about four tournament daddy-ball games). 

Why? 

Why try to be "without an ejection" for a year, a decade, a century, a (whatever)?  There are only two ways one can obtain a goal of not ejecting anyone for a certain length of time: (1) Luck or (2) refusing to do your job.  Sure, there are ways you can minimize the possibility of an ejection (learning good game management techniques, not being a red ass, etc.) but there is no way you can eliminate ejections...unless you refuse to do your job.  For, as you posted, sometimes "they gotta go".  I'll add that "sometimes they gotta go" even when you (the umpire) use perfect game management skills.  So when they gotta go: accommodate them (as you did in your OP...and good for you for ejecting (I mean that sincerely)).

I just don't get guys that have a goal of avoiding an ejection for (insert length of time).  Sadly, too many of them go on to become so proud of their "consecutive games without an ejection" streak that they refuse to eject, even when a coach/player just "has to go".  Then they brag about their streak to all their fellow umpires...which makes me want to vomit.  What such an umpire is doing is (1) creating in that coach's/player's mind that their behavior is allowed which (2) forces another umpire to have to correct that coach/player's false mindset.

My recommendation is that instead of having a goal of going ejection-free in 2017, set a goal that you can actually control.  Set a goal to be the very best "game management umpire" you can be for the next year.  And, then, let the chips fall where they may.

[dumbdumb]

22 hours ago, lawump said:

Why? 

Why try to be "without an ejection" for a year, a decade, a century, a (whatever)?  There are only two ways one can obtain a goal of not ejecting anyone for a certain length of time: (1) Luck or (2) refusing to do your job.  Sure, there are ways you can minimize the possibility of an ejection (learning good game management techniques, not being a red ass, etc.) but there is no way you can eliminate ejections...unless you refuse to do your job.  For, as you posted, sometimes "they gotta go".  I'll add that "sometimes they gotta go" even when you (the umpire) use perfect game management skills.  So when they gotta go: accommodate them (as you did in your OP...and good for you for ejecting (I mean that sincerely)).

I just don't get guys that have a goal of avoiding an ejection for (insert length of time).  Sadly, too many of them go on to become so proud of their "consecutive games without an ejection" streak that they refuse to eject, even when a coach/player just "has to go".  Then they brag about their streak to all their fellow umpires...which makes me want to vomit.  What such an umpire is doing is (1) creating in that coach's/player's mind that their behavior is allowed which (2) forces another umpire to have to correct that coach/player's false mindset.

My recommendation is that instead of having a goal of going ejection-free in 2017, set a goal that you can actually control.  Set a goal to be the very best "game management umpire" you can be for the next year.  And, then, let the chips fall where they may.

And another person's view on the subject.

Al Barlick-HOF-on ejections

Barlick often told his umpires,"Though it's very bad to eject a player when he shouldn't be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected."

[clasonater]

Law and dumbdumb, thanks for the replies and the wisdom.  I didn't try to go that long without an ejection, I was trying to see how long it took though.  I don't think ejections should be eliminated either.  I often think when watching games for going over situations in my had how a coach would react or how I would (if I was a coach) react during that situation, most of the time, I come to the conclusion that i would probably get tossed haha   

[VolUmp]

I live in a constant conflict on this topic during HS season.  My assignor has to deal with all the head coaches daily and all through the summer and even some into the fall.  The State Director knows most of the athletic directors and many of the coaches, but rarely has to interact with them.

In the 13 years I've called FED, the only criticism I've received from my Assignor is being a bit unapproachable ... or having too short of a leash with coaches.  I have very very few ejections, but I've had those kind of complaints from coaches.

My state director has only ever criticized me for the opposite ... for not restricting or ejecting ... and thus he'll always argue, "It couldn't have been that bad if you let him stay."

[VolUmp]

13 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

And another person's view on the subject.

Al Barlick-HOF-on ejections

Barlick often told his umpires,"Though it's very bad to eject a player when he shouldn't be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected."

I heartily disagree with this position.

That's like saying, "Although it's very bad to put an innocent person in prison, it's far worse to let a guilty person out of prison."

[dumbdumb]

2 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I heartily disagree with this position.

That's like saying, "Although it's very bad to put an innocent person in prison, it's far worse to let a guilty person out of prison."

Sorry, but the way I took it was that 2 people are over in the corner of the dugout and have been relatively quite all night, but on a borderline pitch start chirping about the pitch, and one calls you an SOB, and so you toss that guy, only to find out later that the one you tossed chirped that the pitch was low, and it was his buddy, that you let stay in the game, was the one calling you an SOB,.

----versus somebody(s) in the dugout ragging on you all night or personally cursing you and you see who it is, but just let it go because you don't want to make waves or receive a complaint to the assignor/director, etc.etc., about an ejection from the perpetrator.

[BT_Blue]

I've averaged one a year since I started. This past season put me "behind" by a year. Of course... I also only did about 20 games because of work.

This year I am hoping to have a bit more time. So I am looking to start working my local LL for the first time in forever  (it is the one my son will join when he is old enough). And also will try and work some travel ball in the area.

I am guessing I will probably, at least pull even again this year because of that.

[clasonater]

I didn't realize an old post of mine would get this much attention .  I had (recently moved) a reputation for being unapproachable.  I don't know why, I don't chit chat or laugh but I don't chase or throw up the hand as soon as a skip reaches the top step (unless he deserves it). The coaches who were worth a SH*#, however, knew to come talk to me and they would get an explanation and what to expect if they got smart.  I avoided daddy ball as much as possible this year.  just one small tournament and a big national.  Didn't hear a chirp from those games

[Stan W.]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that ejections for me are based on "if they have to go, they go".............now each reason or coach personality can affect "when" it happens.....but I'm very comfortable with my game management skills.

I have not regretted an ejection in years.....and my ejection numbers are very low. I attribute that to the fact that it is known that I WILL eject them if they go to far and thus "need to go".

My only ejection this past year was in Fall ball......a travel team joined the HS fall ball league playing under NFHS rules. I ejected an assistant coach.   Mainly he was the teams "hardass" coach........he gnawed on all umpires from pitch one, that OBR rules trumped NFHS rules, and that he was going to ride me all night long... He had to go....

Short night for him.

[lawump]

9 minutes ago, Stan W. said:

 I attribute that to the fact that it is known that I WILL eject them if they go to far and thus "need to go".

And that's the key.  I've been umpiring the same high schools for 15-years.  Word gets around. 

On more than one occasion I have had a new high school umpire complain to me that they don't know if they can handle the stress of being yelled at "all the time" and that they may leave high school and go back to youth baseball.  I ask them, "How many ejections have you had?"  They reply, "none."  I then reply, "there's your problem.  Why do you tolerate being yelled at all the time?  Why don't you warn and then eject?"  I further tell them that once they eject one or two coaches, they'll be amazed at how quiet their games get.  (Especially in my state where coaches face a minimum $300 fine and a one game suspension for being ejected, but often get more than the minimum penalties (even for their first ejection)).  I tell these new high school umpires that once they "pop their cherry" their high school games will be a lot quieter than their youth games because the high school coaches face real penalties for ejections (unlike daddy-ball coaches)...and once word gets around that you'll dump them, they tend to shut up.

Here's the reality for most (high school) coaches (at least in SC): their spouses already hate that they're away from home 7 days a week for baseball during the spring.  (Just like many of our spouses hate us being away to umpire!) That alone cause many of them to have friction in their home.  Then, most of these coaches get a pittance from the school district for coaching baseball (its a non-revenue sport).  Now, stop and think how thrilled their wife would be if they then have to go home and tell their wife that their coaching (which the wife already despises) cost them $300 because he was ejected.  In other words, these coaches don't want to be ejected because, among other reasons, their wives will kill them if their "hobby" takes money out of the monthly pay check.

In college, most of them don't want to be ejected, either.  If one uses the magic warning ["coach, this is your warning, if you continue to argue balls and strikes you are going to be ejected."], 9 out of 10 times the coach will stop.  By looking them in the eye and using the warning with a stern, clear voice (instead of trying to ignore them inning after inning, or worse, ignoring them because you are afraid to confront them) they know that you are serious and that you will run 'em.  That alone gets 9 out of 10 of them to stop.

I had a recent D. 1 college game where the head coach was riding my partner (1B umpire) from the dugout that the opposing team's pitcher was balking.  He was on him non-stop for two batters.  I (home plate umpire) was wondering when my partner was going to put an end to it (it had gone on way too long, IMHO)  But, since this was big-boy ball, I was not going to interfere with my partner's handling (or non-handling) of this "non-routine situation".  It was his to handle....until the head coach came down to the other end of the dugout and yelled out at me, "you can see it too!  Call the balk!"  I ripped off my mask said, "this is your warning!  If you continue to argue about their pitcher balking you are going to be ejected!"  The coach literally said, "okay" and then sat down and never said another word the rest of the game.  Sometimes, they're just testing to see if you have b@lls!

[BT_Blue]

The only ones I regret are the ones I have missed. I can recall two that I knew of and missed and one that I should have gotten but turned the wrong way and missed it.