Foul tip?

[berns_97]

This was HS Regional Quarter Final game. Im behind the plate. Top of the 1st, 2nd batter, 2-2 count. Ball comes inside, hits the knob of the bat, hits his hand and the catcher ends up catching the ball ( I know, it seems impossible but thats what happened) i come up and call "Time!" Im processing it at this moment, i call foul and then the home team coach starts coming out and before he reached me i said to him "Tony you can go back, im gonna talk to Ray and Ace" ( my 1st & 3rd base umpires). He said ok and went back to the dugout. So in the end, we ended up calling it a Foul tip and batter was out, as much as i wanted to call it a foul ball, i think we made the right call because the ball did go sharp and directly to the glove from the bat. What do yall have?

P.S. The ball did clearly hit the batters hand because his hand was bleeding

[ALStripes17]

This was HS Regional Quarter Final game. Im behind the plate. Top of the 1st, 2nd batter, 2-2 count. Ball comes inside, hits the knob of the bat, hits his hand and the catcher ends up catching the ball ( I know, it seems impossible but thats what happened) i come up and call "Time!" Im processing it at this moment, i call foul and then the home team coach starts coming out and before he reached me i said to him "Tony you can go back, im gonna talk to Ray and Ace" ( my 1st & 3rd base umpires). He said ok and went back to the dugout. So in the end, we ended up calling it a Foul tip and batter was out, as much as i wanted to call it a foul ball, i think we made the right call because the ball did go sharp and directly to the glove from the bat. What do yall have?

P.S. The ball did clearly hit the batters hand because his hand was bleeding

So it was a batted ball (off the knob) that ended up hitting the batter's body (hand)...at that point it is dead. Foul ball.

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[noumpere]

42 minutes ago, berns_97 said:

This was HS Regional Quarter Final game. Im behind the plate. Top of the 1st, 2nd batter, 2-2 count. Ball comes inside, hits the knob of the bat, hits his hand and the catcher ends up catching the ball ( I know, it seems impossible but thats what happened) i come up and call "Time!" Im processing it at this moment, i call foul and then the home team coach starts coming out and before he reached me i said to him "Tony you can go back, im gonna talk to Ray and Ace" ( my 1st & 3rd base umpires). He said ok and went back to the dugout. So in the end, we ended up calling it a Foul tip and batter was out, as much as i wanted to call it a foul ball, i think we made the right call because the ball did go sharp and directly to the glove from the bat. What do yall have?

P.S. The ball did clearly hit the batters hand because his hand was bleeding

I have a foul ball.  You have partners you shouldn't go to anymore.

[berns_97]

31 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

So it was a batted ball (off the knob) that ended up hitting the batter's body (hand)...at that point it is dead. Foul ball.

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Thats what i thought as well but my buddy in the midwest league said it is a foul tip, so did my friend Sean Barber in AAA, but i still dont understand why, since the ball did hit his hand.

[catsbackr]

Change body parts and view it differently.

 

Ball goes off of nob, off of foot, directly into catcher's glove.  What do you got?

 

 

[ALStripes17]

Thats what i thought as well but my buddy in the midwest league said it is a foul tip, so did my friend Sean Barber in AAA, but i still dont understand why, since the ball did hit his hand.

Let's chalk that up to miscommunication of the scenario.

Because anytime a pitch (before touching F2) or batted ball contacts the batter (or BR), then the play is dead for some reason.

Once it hit the hands, the play is over...

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[FleasOf1000Camels]

You mean the hands are NOT part of the bat???

[Replacematt]

I'm wondering why PU would go for help on this.

[maven]

44 minutes ago, Matt said:

I'm wondering why PU would go for help on this.

Every call we make involves judgment (what we saw) + rule (what we're applying).

If he goes for help on the judgment part, then he's barking up the wrong tree: he should not be relying on what they saw from 80–100 feet away.

If he goes for help on the rules and how to apply them, I'd have no problem with it. Someone who was initially inclined to rule this a foul tip could in principle be talked out of that by doing so.

[Replacematt]

59 minutes ago, maven said:

Every call we make involves judgment (what we saw) + rule (what we're applying).

If he goes for help on the judgment part, then he's barking up the wrong tree: he should not be relying on what they saw from 80–100 feet away.

If he goes for help on the rules and how to apply them, I'd have no problem with it. Someone who was initially inclined to rule this a foul tip could in principle be talked out of that by doing so.

I agree, and that's why I'm wondering instead of thinking it was right or wrong.

[berns_97]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

I'm wondering why PU would go for help on this.

I didnt know what to do so i initially called foul ball but was not 100% sure so i went to get help on how to rule it

[udbrky]

Once you call it a foul ball, can you overturn it and make it a live ball?

 

For instance, earlier in the year, I booted a call that I ruled IF if fair that bounced foul and I initially saw it as past 1B, then it bounced back fair in front of the bag and stopped, but I had a quick Foul call. I can't confer with partner, then rule it IFF, right?

[ALStripes17]

Once you call it a foul ball, can you overturn it and make it a live ball?

 

For instance, earlier in the year, I booted a call that I ruled IF if fair that bounced foul and I initially saw it as past 1B, then it bounced back fair in front of the bag and stopped, but I had a quick Foul call. I can't confer with partner, then rule it IFF, right?

Once you call 'Foul' on a batted ball that has been GROUNDED, you cannot reverse it (FED).

Plus, that is the least of our worries in the OP.

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[udbrky]

Thank you, I just wanted to clarify in reading this. 

[ALStripes17]

Thank you, I just wanted to clarify in reading this. 

No doubt. Anytime that question is brought up, it's always a good reminder to use proper timing. Specifically during scenarios that may kill the baseball.

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[udbrky]

Yes, I immediately kicked myself and explained the correct ruling and why this was wrong to the coaches for the future.

[ricka56]

I recently had a similar play. I initially ruled foul ball off the knob of the bat. OHC asks if I'd check the batter's hand...sure. There was a one inch square on his left hand where it got pinched between the pitch and the bat knob. Blood was oozing from the wound. I reversed myself and awarded 1B. The DHC made a little stink, saying that he'd never seen such a reversal. I said, me neither...though I have seen it done on TV. Contact between the bat, ball and hand was as simultaneous as I could possibly discern. The bloody hand got the decision. 

In the OP, he says that the batter is bleeding. How did his hand get bloody ?   

[VolUmp]

Ther is NO rule in OBR or FED that covers a ball that hits the bat AND the hand precisely at the same time.

If I hear "tink" I go with foul.

If I hear "thud" or "smack" I go with HBP.

It's a perfectly legit call to say "FOUL" and then see the blood and say, "How 'bout that."

It's a lot like the rule books do not recognize a tie ... OBR now talks all around it to try to recognize it without saying the word TIE.

[KenBAZ]

OP judged that the ball hit the bat then the hand. The ruling is easy, as soon as the ball hit the hand it is no longer alive and in play. It can't be caught by F2 . Judging what happened can be tough, ruling should not be.

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