Tough Night

[LMSANS]

1 hour ago, jjb said:

+1. Thanks, LM. Slow coffee this am....

I erred...please see @noumpere's post.

[maven]

1 minute ago, basejester said:

I disagree with what I think you're saying here.  The pitcher in the original post failed to come to a stop.  A pitcher hasn't failed to stop until he releases the ball.  The batter rightfully gets a shot at this pitch. 

Huh? He has failed to stop once he's committed to pitch, which necessarily happens before he releases the ball.

[basejester]

Just now, maven said:

Huh? He has failed to stop once he's committed to pitch, which necessarily happens before he releases the ball.

There's a lot of nonsense the pitcher can do prior to coming stopped in the set that's legal.  You might recall a recent video of the pitcher with a leg lift as part of his preliminary motions.

Ignoring wind-up for a second, what actions commit a pitcher to pitch prior to coming set in your typical "blow through a stop" balk?  (I'm happy to learn something here.)

 

[maven]

5 minutes ago, basejester said:

Ignoring wind-up for a second, what actions commit a pitcher to pitch prior to coming set in your typical "blow through a stop" balk?  (I'm happy to learn something here.)

Any motion of hands or feet that would make a subsequent pickoff a balk.

I'm frankly astonished that this is new to you.

[basejester]

9 minutes ago, maven said:

Any motion of hands or feet that would make a subsequent pickoff a balk.

I'm frankly astonished that this is new to you.

Humor me.  Say something specific a set pitcher does with his hands or feet that commits him to pitch prior to coming set.

[ALStripes17]

Humor me.  Say something specific a set pitcher does with his hands or feet that commits him to pitch prior to coming set.

Any motion towards the plate with practical assumption of delivery while the pitcher is engaged with the rubber would be considered 'committing to pitch'.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here...

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[basejester]

10 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

Any motion towards the plate with practical assumption of delivery while the pitcher is engaged with the rubber would be considered 'committing to pitch'.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I don't think we shouldn't kill plays (or cause to plays to stop) for a pitcher's failure to stop.  I'm getting a lot of general answers with respect to this, but specifically what actions prior to the stop can't be interpreted as part of the stretch and should be interpreted as the beginning of a pitch.  Lots of pitchers now include a small step toward home as part of their stretch.  Breaking hands doesn't commit the pitcher to home.  If not the release, when is it too late for a pitcher to come to a stop?

Or alternately, can we find any examples from mlb.com with umpires stopping a play for violation of:

(m) The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop.

 

[ALStripes17]

I don't think we shouldn't kill plays (or cause to plays to stop) for a pitcher's failure to stop.  I'm getting a lot of general answers with respect to this, but specifically what actions prior to the stop can't be interpreted as part of the stretch and should be interpreted as the beginning of a pitch.  Lots of pitchers now include a small step toward home as part of their stretch.  Breaking hands doesn't commit the pitcher to home.  If not the release, when is it too late for a pitcher to come to a stop?

Or alternately, can we find any examples from mlb.com with umpires stopping a play for violation of:

(m) The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop.

 

At what point do we not reasonably assume when a pitcher is 'attempting to deliver to the plate? I think I understand what you are saying now as any continuous motion from the beginning of the 'coming set' motion could be considered as 'still coming set'. But you, I, and the rest of the competent umpiring world can interpret and practically apply when a pitcher is attempting to deliver a pitch to the plate.

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[noumpere]

10 minutes ago, basejester said:

I don't think we shouldn't kill plays (or cause to plays to stop) for a pitcher's failure to stop.  I'm getting a lot of general answers with respect to this, but specifically what actions prior to the stop can't be interpreted as part of the stretch and should be interpreted as the beginning of a pitch.  Lots of pitchers now include a small step toward home as part of their stretch.  Breaking hands doesn't commit the pitcher to home.  If not the release, when is it too late for a pitcher to come to a stop?

Or alternately, can we find any examples from mlb.com with umpires stopping a play for violation of:

(m) The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop.

 

The pitcher leans toward the plate, opens up his hips, moves the free foot after lifting it toward the plate (past the 45* angle) ....

 

It's now either a balk for failing to stop or it's going to be a balk for committing to pitch and then stopping or throwing to first (or some other base).

I will say that there's more than one example (but only one from my personal experience  ) of an umpire calling a balk on a LH for failing to stop only to have the pitcher throw to first (in an otherwise legal move).  So, yes, we're better off making this call late rather than early, but it doesn't always need to be after the release.

[lawump]

5 hours ago, noumpere said:

I will say that there's more than one example (but only one from my personal experience  ) of an umpire calling a balk on a LH for failing to stop only to have the pitcher throw to first (in an otherwise legal move).  So, yes, we're better off making this call late rather than early, but it doesn't always need to be after the release.

Timing, timing, timing.  Yup, I learned this one the hard way, too.

[basejester]

 

 

 

[HuskerUmp22]

Thanks for all the information guys. Very helpful. This type of game, though not fun, will help me in the long run. 

[basejester]

Here's a call for no stop.

http://m.mlb.com/video/v680390183/kcnyy-mccann-goes-to-second-base-on-sorias-balk/?query=balk

http://m.mlb.com/video/v647718483/kcsea-marte-advances-to-second-base-on-balk/?query=balk

 

 

[udbrky]

On 5/13/2016 at 8:48 PM, basejester said:

This was bases empty. I think it was covered pretty exhaustively in that thread.

 

 

 

[basejester]

1 hour ago, udbrky said:

 

More than one person reported that he did it with runners on base.  Can you refute that?

 

[udbrky]

Just now, basejester said:

More than one person reported that he did it with runners on base.  Can you refute that?

 

I googled and didn't find any video of it.