B.O.O. Who's out?

[stl_ump]

#4 is up but it should be #3

R1 and R2

#4 hits ground ball to F6 who throws to 3rd for the force and that's all they get.  Defense then points out it is BOO.  I know BR is out as the wrong batter but is R2 still out as well?

And as a follow up... does R1 have to go back to 1st?

Thanks

 

[maven]

13 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

#4 is up but it should be #3

R1 and R2

#4 hits ground ball to F6 who throws to 3rd for the force and that's all they get.  Defense then points out it is BOO.  I know BR is out as the wrong batter but is R2 still out as well?

And as a follow up... does R1 have to go back to 1st?

Thanks

What you know just ain't so.

The infraction is actually MYTAB: Missing Your Time At Bat. That tells you who is out (the appeal came at the proper time): batter #3 is out. The BR (batter #4) is removed from base, other runners return. In FED only, R2's out stands (so the defense gets 2 outs on the play, R2's and the MYTAB).

The proper batter is now #4 (yes, he picks up his bat and returns to the plate for his proper time at bat).

[stl_ump]

Thanks for the clarification on the "out" at 1st.

Since this is OBR then the out out 3rd doesn't count and he as well as R1 go back to their original bases?  Could you site the rule?

Thanks

[noumpere]

3) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put

out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before

the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before

any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare

the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or

score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter

or because of the improper batter’s advance to first

base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or

otherwise.

[ALStripes17]

If #5 wasn't walking up to the plate, I would prob keep quiet until THAT batter finished...

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[stl_ump]

14 minutes ago, noumpere said:

3) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put

out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before

the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before

any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare

the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or

score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter

or because of the improper batter’s advance to first

base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or

otherwise.

But would  R2 be considered an advance since he never made it to 3rd because he was put out?

And backing up a bit.  If the improper batter is out at first does that out stand?

[Rich Ives]

25 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

Thanks for the clarification on the "out" at 1st.

Since this is OBR then the out out 3rd doesn't count and he as well as R1 go back to their original bases?  Could you site the rule?

Thanks

If you re-read the BOO rule you will find where anything that happens gets nullified.

[Rich Ives]

8 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

If #5 wasn't walking up to the plate, I would prob keep quiet until THAT batter finished...

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An umpire or official scorer is prohibited from pointing it out. Only the defense can appeal a BOO.  If the offense discovers it during the AB they just senf the proper batter to the plate and he assumes the count.  

[stl_ump]

OK.. then that's easy. Erase everything.  

2 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

If you re-read the BOO rule you will find where anything that happens gets nullified.

 

[noumpere]

5 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

And backing up a bit.  If the improper batter is out at first does that out stand?

Under no baseball code do you get both an out on the proper batter (for failing to bat) and on the improper batter (for making an out) on the same play.

[ALStripes17]

An umpire or official scorer is prohibited from pointing it out. Only the defense can appeal a BOO.  If the offense discovers it during the AB they just senf the proper batter to the plate and he assumes the count.  

As a defensive coach...

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[maven]

21 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

But would  R2 be considered an advance since he never made it to 3rd because he was put out?

And backing up a bit.  If the improper batter is out at first does that out stand?

For FED only: any outs made during play STAND, but the out for MYTAB supersedes any out made by the improper batter. If the defense made a double play (not involving the improper batter) and then successfully appealed MYTAB, that would result in 3 outs.

For other codes: the defense gets only ONE out, the MYTAB out. Everything else that happened during play is nullified.

[ALStripes17]

For FED only: any outs made during play STAND. If the defense made a double play and then successfully appealed MYTAB, that would result in 3 outs.

For other codes: the defense gets only ONE out, the MYTAB out. Everything else that happened during play is nullified.

But in FED, you can't get an out on the improper BR during action AND the BOO out, can you? That would be 2 outs on the same spot in the lineup.

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[maven]

1 minute ago, ALStripes17 said:

But in FED, you can't get an out on the improper BR during action AND the BOO out, can you? That would be 2 outs on the same spot in the lineup.

Right: I edited to clarify.

[maven]

30 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

If #5 wasn't walking up to the plate, I would prob keep quiet until THAT batter finished...

This would depend on the level for me and the heat of the game for me. For me, this approach is for better HS varsity and up.

[ALStripes17]

This would depend on the level for me and the heat of the game for me. For me, this approach is for better HS varsity and up.

Reason being the runner and out situation is the same with result of play OR calling BOO... Leaving the result gives the chance of getting BOO on the next hitter I don't know of many coaches or teams that would be able to get back into order

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[StrikeToWin]

Ok, just curious, let's say that batter #5 comes up and takes his turn at bat and they get to batter #6 and so now we have skipped batter # 3 and the defense has just now figured this out, do we still have a BOO situation, or do we just continue on and # 3 missed?  I guess my question is, when does the defense lose their ability to appeal a BOO?

[spiffdawg7]

19 minutes ago, StrikeToWin said:

Ok, just curious, let's say that batter #5 comes up and takes his turn at bat and they get to batter #6 and so now we have skipped batter # 3 and the defense has just now figured this out, do we still have a BOO situation, or do we just continue on and # 3 missed?  I guess my question is, when does the defense lose their ability to appeal a BOO?

The defense loses the ability to appeal after the first pitch to the next batter.  This first pitch actually legitimizes the improper batter and the now proper batter should be the next in the lineup.  The #3 batter's turn was skipped and will bat again next time through the order. 

[ALStripes17]

Ok, just curious, let's say that batter #5 comes up and takes his turn at bat and they get to batter #6 and so now we have skipped batter # 3 and the defense has just now figured this out, do we still have a BOO situation, or do we just continue on and # 3 missed?  I guess my question is, when does the defense lose their ability to appeal a BOO?

After the next pitch is thrown, #4 (on first base now) becomes legitimized and any appeal about his BOO will be denied. #5 will be the next proper batter since he follows #4 in the lineup.

Generally #3 will look up and go 'oh crap I need to go hit to make up for missing' so if #3 goes up after #4 and gets 'put it in the books' then the defense can now appeal #3 batting out of turn since #5 follows #4.

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[lawump]

Here's a FED only play: Top of the first inning.  First two batters walk; so we have R2, R1 no outs.  B3 due up, but B4 bats instead.  B4 hits a one-hop scorcher that is picked by F5.  F5 steps on third base (R2 out on force) then throws to F4 (R1 out on the force).  F4 throws to F3 but the B/R is ruled safe.

Defense then comes and appeals that B4 batted out-of-order.  Upon appeal, B3 is called "out" and we have a FED special triple play.

[noumpere]

And if we started also with R3 who "scored" on the play, then the run would not count.

[maven]

1 hour ago, lawump said:

Here's a FED only play: Top of the first inning.  First two batters walk; so we have R2, R1 no outs.  B3 due up, but B4 bats instead.  B4 hits a one-hop scorcher that is picked by F5.  F5 steps on third base (R2 out on force) then throws to F4 (R1 out on the force).  F4 throws to F3 but the B/R is ruled safe.

Defense then comes and appeals that B4 batted out-of-order.  Upon appeal, B3 is called "out" and we have a FED special triple play.

As noumpere says, the run would not score. The reason is that the BR (the proper batter) made the third out before legally touching 1B.

[TNCoach]

2 hours ago, ALStripes17 said:

After the next pitch is thrown, #4 (on first base now) becomes legitimized and any appeal about his BOO will be denied. #5 will be the next proper batter since he follows #4 in the lineup.

Generally #3 will look up and go 'oh crap I need to go hit to make up for missing' so if #3 goes up after #4 and gets 'put it in the books' then the defense can now appeal #3 batting out of turn since #5 follows #4.

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Then, when three hits, four is supposed to bat next, but he is on base, so five is batting out of order.

[spiffdawg7]

11 minutes ago, TNCoach said:

Then, when three hits, four is supposed to bat next, but he is on base, so five is batting out of order.

If a batters time at bat comes when he is in base then he is legally skipped.  So 5 would get to bat with no penalty is 4 is on base. 

[ALStripes17]

Then, when three hits, four is supposed to bat next, but he is on base, so five is batting out of order.

No, if it continues and #4 becomes the proper batter while on base (say #3 hits and a pitch follows), he is skipped and #5 is now the proper batter.

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