Who is the correct pitcher?

[jpperez14]

Recently in a varsity tournament game I had a situation where a player, not listed to pitch, went to the mound and started throwing warm up pitches.

Top of the 1st, very beginning of the game. Player #5 came out got on the mound and started to throw from the mound. Player #10 heads towards the mound and realizes someone is already throwing. He turns to his coach and the HC yells at #5 he isn't suppose to pitch yet and yells him to get in the dugout. #5 goes to the dugout and #10 starts warming up. I check the lineup card and see that #5 is listed as a sub and #10 is listed as the starting pitcher. I got behind the plate and watched a couple of pitches, only gave #10 6 pitches due to #5 already throwing 2. (correct or incorrect?)

Later on in the game, VTHC comes over and ask that because #5 started throwing isn't he required to face the first batter? I told him that #10 was listed on the lineup as the starting pitcher, so #10 must throw to the first batter until he is put out or reaches 1st base unless he is unable to due to an injury. Coach said what he thought it was and understood what I was saying.

So, the question is had this happen later in the game (say bottom 6, #5 throws 3 pitches but, was not suppose to enter the game yet, #10 still current pitcher) #5 is not the new pitcher due to the fact the ball has not been put in play, correct? Because it wasn't announced that #5 was replacing #10, and an a unannounced sub only becomes a sub when the ball is live and the pitcher toes the rubber (NFHS 3-1-1a). Help away.

[VAUmp]

I think you handled it correctly.

 

[noumpere]

I think it's LL that has the "if anyone throws a warmup, that player is the pitcher" rule.  And, I think they enforce it even to the point that if F6  runs past the mound and tosses the ball to F2 (just having fun) that F6 now has to pitch.

[stkjock]

7 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I think it's LL that has the "if anyone throws a warmup, that player is the pitcher" rule.  And, I think they enforce it even to the point that if F6  runs past the mound and tosses the ball to F2 (just having fun) that F6 now has to pitch.

My experience is primarily in LL and I agree this rule exists, I have never seen it enforced in 5 years in rec play.  IIRC, once in a WP tournament game I was at did it become a discussed issue.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, stkjock said:

My experience is primarily in LL and I agree this rule exists, I have never seen it enforced in 5 years in rec play.  IIRC, once in a WP tournament game I was at did it become a discussed issue.

The rule exists in OBR also except they don't require a warmup pitch for the pitcher to become an unannounced substitute. If the wrong pitcher came from the bullpen and took his place on the pitcher's plate to start warming up before the manager noticed it this would be his new pitcher. 

[maven]

53 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

The rule exists in OBR also except they don't require a warmup pitch for the pitcher to become an unannounced substitute. If the wrong pitcher came from the bullpen and took his place on the pitcher's plate to start warming up before the manager noticed it this would be his new pitcher. 

A rule difference. FED 3-1-1a dictates that unannounced substitutes enter the game "...when the ball is live and..." certain conditions are satisfied. For pitchers, they enter the game when they're engaged and the ball is made live.

For OBR, the same conditions are listed, but there is no mention of the ball being live (except condition c). So when a sub F1 engages the plate for warm-ups, he's in the game. OBR 5.10(j)/3.08(a)

I don't work LL, but apparently they take this provision seriously.

[stkjock]

17 minutes ago, maven said:

 

I don't work LL, but apparently they take this provision seriously.

from my experience I would echo this comment

[Jimurray]

16 minutes ago, maven said:

A rule difference. FED 3-1-1a dictates that unannounced substitutes enter the game "...when the ball is live and..." certain conditions are satisfied. For pitchers, they enter the game when they're engaged and the ball is made live.

For OBR, the same conditions are listed, but there is no mention of the ball being live (except condition c). So when a sub F1 engages the plate for warm-ups, he's in the game. OBR 5.10(j)/3.08(a)

I don't work LL, but apparently they take this provision seriously.

I've never seen it happen in any venue but it would have to be taken seriously in any OBR game and a new pitcher engaged the plate to start his warmups without an announcement from the manager.

[Rich Ives]

4 hours ago, noumpere said:

I think it's LL that has the "if anyone throws a warmup, that player is the pitcher" rule.  And, I think they enforce it even to the point that if F6  runs past the mound and tosses the ball to F2 (just having fun) that F6 now has to pitch.

He has to throw a warm-up from the rubber. Then he's the pitcher.

Too many connivers around - had to make a rule.

[Mudisfun]

I have used preventative umpiring to prevent this from happening in several LL games... You know #23 was the F1 last inning. You noticed no one warming up between innings. #45 on his way to the field grabs the game ball and start s heading to the mound... for some reason you can just tell when they are or are not the 'real' pitcher.

Hey! Are you the new pitcher? No? The please drop the ball and move on.

Issue averted.

If it gets beyond that and he throws? Well kid keep throwing your 6... your the new guy.