Indicator on the Bases

[Storm13]

I did my first HS scrimmage last night and had the bases the majority of the game...it was a learning experience...lol.  I have never had formal training or even been evaluated by anyone in the past so I learned a few things I will use in the future.  But getting to my question...I was on the bases and have always used (and been told to use) an indicator on the bases and on the plate.  I was told by a senior ump that I trust to "Get rid of that darn indicator".  What are your thoughts?

[Thunderheads]

oh boy ..........here we go again.......

[spiffdawg7]

It depends on what your association/state want you to do.  In Georgia we are required to carry an indicator in the field unfortunately.  If you are not required too, then most do not carry an indicator in the field for baseball.  That is more of a softball custom.

[Storm13]

10 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

oh boy ..........here we go again.......

Sorry if this has been discussed before...I did't see it.  Thanks for the reply and have a great day

[Thunderheads]

1 minute ago, Storm13 said:

Sorry if this has been discussed before...I did't see it.  Thanks for the reply and have a great day

it's not you .... ....it's just a subject that's as agreeable as politics

[Storm13]

Ok...so if you don't use an indicator what do you do for the count and the outs?

[Specks]

Let my partner who's job it is keep track of that do it. As far as outs, I can usually count to 3, usually.

[Storm13]

Just now, Specks said:

Let my partner who's job it is keep track of that do it. As far as outs, I can usually count to 3, usually.

Ok...thanks for being productive...i can count to 3 as well but sometimes remembering what happen 30 min. ago is a little harder.  I would hate to be the one that looks like a fool thinking it is 3 outs when there are only 2 and missing a play.  Just asking for advice on how others do it.  

And i have had too may partners that have "lost" the count and had then check with me to not try to remember/keep that too.  Maybe your working games with great umps but i have worked mostly games with volunteers and low level guys/gals.  Just me.  Have a great day.

[Specks]

Sorry, didn't mean that to come across as snarky.

Simply meant the count is the PU responsibility not yours, if he loses it then he deals with it. If you're communicating as a team then PU will be giving the count verbally and mechanically and between play signals will give the outs and potential rotations insuring all are on the same page. If you partner doesn't signal the count and ya'll aren't communicating then.....I don't know.

[grayhawk]

Since most signals between you and your partner involve showing the number of outs, I find this to be sufficient for me to know the situation.  I used to carry an indicator on the bases, but don't anymore unless required to do so.  I don't care if anyone chooses to carry one or not, as long as they know their job and execute it well.  There have been stories of guys missing stuff while looking down at their indicator, and I have seen it happen to a couple of partners when I was working travel ball tournaments.  If either umpire misses something because they're looking at their indicator, then they need to get a notched one, or figure out a better system.

When I'm on the plate, I try to be cognizant of the times that my partner might not know the count (such as after a steal attempt), so I will flash the count to him to be sure he knows.

[JaxRolo]

don't do it

[kstrunk]

You're ok Storm13, no worries. 

Many guys take the philosophy of leaving it up to the plate ump, it's his job, let him do it. Some associations require it. My HS association requires it, and it has proven helpful to some guys who lost the count, etc... 

I am interested to learn what happens at upper levels, NJCAA, NCAA, especially in 3 and 4 man crews, do they all carry one? 

[Storm13]

10 minutes ago, Specks said:

Sorry, didn't mean that to come across as snarky.

Simply meant the count is the PU responsibility not yours, if he loses it then he deals with it. If you're communicating as a team then PU will be giving the count verbally and mechanically and between play signals will give the outs and potential rotations insuring all are on the same page. If you partner doesn't signal the count and ya'll aren't communicating then.....I don't know.

Sorry to come off like that...just a little shocked that anyone would not have an indicator to track the game.  I usually just glance at my indicator while changing positions (A to B on a walk, B to C after a steal, and so forth.)  I understand the thought of not having a distraction but I personally believe the pros out weight the cons of having it.  I am thinking about just taking some small marbles and putting two in my pocket.  Both in the left= no outs  1 in each pocket= 1 out and 2 in the right pocket= 2 outs.  Just thought about it and may try it tomorrow at my next scrimmage.

[Thunderheads]

7 minutes ago, Storm13 said:

Sorry to come off like that...just a little shocked that anyone would not have an indicator to track the game.  I usually just glance at my indicator while changing positions (A to B on a walk, B to C after a steal, and so forth.)  I understand the thought of not having a distraction but I personally believe the pros out weight the cons of having it.  I am thinking about just taking some small marbles and putting two in my pocket.  Both in the left= no outs  1 in each pocket= 1 out and 2 in the right pocket= 2 outs.  Just thought about it and may try it tomorrow at my next scrimmage.

try working without one on the bases during a scrimmage. PERFECT time to test it .....you'll find it's no big deal

[NorthTexasUmp]

6 minutes ago, Storm13 said:

Sorry to come off like that...just a little shocked that anyone would not have an indicator to track the game.  I usually just glance at my indicator while changing positions (A to B on a walk, B to C after a steal, and so forth.)  I understand the thought of not having a distraction but I personally believe the pros out weight the cons of having it.  I am thinking about just taking some small marbles and putting two in my pocket.  Both in the left= no outs  1 in each pocket= 1 out and 2 in the right pocket= 2 outs.  Just thought about it and may try it tomorrow at my next scrimmage.

I use a rubber band. Left wrist for no outs. Left hand for one out. right hand or wrist for 2 outs. This allows me to know the outs just by feeling where it is and it is not noticeable at all. Learned it from a guy who also does football.

[scrounge]

This is one of those 'no real umpire would do/wear/use XXX' kind of topics - that really no one cares about except fellow umpires. Not all that different than no real umpire would wear a bucket, no real umpire would wear grey ball bags, no real umpire would wear thigh protection, no real umpire would wear red shirts, blah blah blah fishcakes.

Do what you feel comfortable with. If this is your first year, I'd recommend you DO use an indicator, if it helps you keep track and in the game. Certainly would recommend that over some artificial method like switching marbles around.

Now if you're going to use it, use it properly. Don't stare at it, don't get caught up in it, etc...use it as a tool to help you vs something you *have* to maintain. Later on, as you get more experience and begin to internalize the rhythm and pattern of the game at the level you're now in, you may find you don't need it. Or not. Either way, you're fine.

They may have a point about the red bowling shirt thing, though...

[Storm13]

26 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

try working without one on the bases during a scrimmage. PERFECT time to test it .....you'll find it's no big deal

after the first half inning I didn't use it last night and got lost twice...I am going to see about tomorrow but think I need to do it slowly since I have been doing the indicator in the field for over 20 years (on and off umpiring).   May keep one in my pocket and see if I can go without and then use it if I have to.

[lawump]

58 minutes ago, kstrunk said:

You're ok Storm13, no worries. 

Many guys take the philosophy of leaving it up to the plate ump, it's his job, let him do it. Some associations require it. My HS association requires it, and it has proven helpful to some guys who lost the count, etc... 

I am interested to learn what happens at upper levels, NJCAA, NCAA, especially in 3 and 4 man crews, do they all carry one? 

NCAA - no (not even in two man)

MiLB - no (not even in two man)

MLB - no

[VAUmp]

If there is no one keeping the official count (home score book, reliable scoreboard operator, etc...) I carry one.  If the count gets screwed up, someone has to be able to help fix it.  In higher level games (HS, legion) the home scorer is usually competent and uses a score book where the count can be kept.  Some of the lower level games, the person keeping score doesn't even know how to keep a score book, let alone chart the count.  I always carry one then.
 

Bottom line:  If it makes you feel comfortable, keep the indicator on the field with you.  If you don't want to, don't.  

[Storm13]

33 minutes ago, VAUmp said:

If there is no one keeping the official count (home score book, reliable scoreboard operator, etc...) I carry one.  If the count gets screwed up, someone has to be able to help fix it.  In higher level games (HS, legion) the home scorer is usually competent and uses a score book where the count can be kept.  Some of the lower level games, the person keeping score doesn't even know how to keep a score book, let alone chart the count.  I always carry one then.
 

Bottom line:  If it makes you feel comfortable, keep the indicator on the field with you.  If you don't want to, don't.  

I personally like having the indicator but when a senior ump in the association says to ditch it I feel like I have to do what i am told and get rid of it in the field.

[UmpJeff]

3 hours ago, Storm13 said:

I did my first HS scrimmage last night and had the bases the majority of the game...it was a learning experience...lol.  I have never had formal training or even been evaluated by anyone in the past so I learned a few things I will use in the future.  But getting to my question...I was on the bases and have always used (and been told to use) an indicator on the bases and on the plate.  I was told by a senior ump that I trust to "Get rid of that darn indicator".  What are your thoughts?

Help me to understand...

Did you and your partner switch between plate/bases during the game??

[Storm13]

 

2 minutes ago, UmpJeff said:

2 minutes ago, UmpJeff said:

Help me to understand...

Did you and your partner switch between plate/bases during the game??

 

We had 3 guys working and 2 senior umpires assisting/evaluating us.  We planned to all rotate the plate and bases...We were going to do 2 innings each behind the plate but the scrimmage got cut short due to weather before I went to the plate.  I did 3 innings in the field.

[ricka56]

When partners take issue with me using an indicator on the bases, I'll ask him, are you going to CONSISTENTLY announce the count on every odd number (1-2, 2-1, 3-2), like you're suppose to ? If you are, then I'll put the indicator in my pocket. If you aren't, then STFU about me using my indicator. 

[LRZ]

29 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

 

I carry an indicator in the field, but keep it in my back pocket. What I do, storm13, is repeat the count and outs after each pitch like this, for example: "thirty-one, two."

Most people here will tell you to do what your association or assigners require, so your advancement is not hindered. The other point of view, for minor or non-essential issues like this, is: do what makes you feel most comfortable and on top of things. Lastly, there is the position that you do what is required, then, once you've proved yourself and moved up, do what feels right.

[VAUmp]

Just because someone is a "senior ump" doesn't mean you have to take every piece of advice.  Listen to your assigner and your board of directors.  If they say you shouldn't, then don't.  If they say it's up to you, then you make your own decision.