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Keeping guys on their side....

JDavis225

By JDavis225
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JDavis225

JDavis225

Posted
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Anybody have a rule reference on keeping the on deck batters on their own side? I read something in the NCAA "Starting the Game" section saying the batters must stay in a triangle in the vicinity of the dug out....what about high school? Is there something in the FED book? I can't find mine right now but I hate when players are determined to go on the other side to get a better look at the warm up pitches. Am I the only one that has an issue with this? Help? 

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noumpere
noumpere

1-2-3 ART. 3 . . . The on-deck circle should be to the side and away from home plate, 37 feet if space allows. Neither team's players shall warm up in the other team's on-deck circle. The on-deck cir

Jimurray
Jimurray

FED, as well as NCAA, does not want batters near the plate when the pitcher is warming up: 3-3-ART. 3 . . . Players loosening up to bat shall remain in the area of their team's on-deck circle while th

KenBAZ
KenBAZ

? Noumpere are you saying that you call for some leagues that allow the on deck hitter to go to the pull side on deck circle when it's in front of the other dugout? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapat

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noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

1-2-3

ART. 3 . . . The on-deck circle should be to the side and away from home plate, 37 feet if space allows. Neither team's players shall warm up in the other team's on-deck circle. The on-deck circle does not have to be occupied, but if a player wishes to warm up, he shall do so only in his team's on-deck circle, provided the on-deck circle is located safely away from home plate.

Edited by noumpere
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stkjock

stkjock

Posted
Posted

 

1-2-3

ART. 3 . . . The on-deck circle should be to the side and away from home plate, 37 feet if space allows. Neither team's players shall warm up in the other team's on-deck circle. The on-deck circle does not have to be occupied, but if a player wishes to warm up, he shall do so only in his team's on-deck circle, provided the on-deck circle is located safely away from home plate.

that would apply to the time during which the pitcher is taking his 5 warms ups (which seems what the OP is concerned with)  and the batter leading off (RH) wants to stand near the batters box?

 

maybe splitting hairs, but if that lead off batter is just standing, not "warming up" it would seem allowable by the rule you quote.

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

maybe splitting hairs, but if that lead off batter is just standing, not "warming up" it would seem allowable by the rule you quote.

Go ahead and try that argument in your next game.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

that would apply to the time during which the pitcher is taking his 5 warms ups (which seems what the OP is concerned with)  and the batter leading off (RH) wants to stand near the batters box?

 

maybe splitting hairs, but if that lead off batter is just standing, not "warming up" it would seem allowable by the rule you quote.

FED, as well as NCAA, does not want batters near the plate when the pitcher is warming up:

3-3-ART. 3 . . . Players loosening up to bat shall remain in the area of their team's on-deck circle while the pitcher is warming up (1-2-3).

 
PENALTY: The umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of the team involved. The next offender on that team shall be ejected.
 
3.3.3 SITUATION:
 
As a pitcher is warming up, the coach of the team at bat calls the next batter over to him for a visit near home plate.
 
RULING: A member of the team at bat should not be allowed to be any nearer home plate than the on-deck circle when a pitcher is warming up.
 
COMMENT: When it is apparent the pitcher has completed his warmup or when summoned by the umpire, the next batter may come to the plate. A player may report to the umpire, who is near home plate, but the player must return to the area of the on-deck circle.
  • Like 1
stkjock

stkjock

Posted
Posted

Go ahead and try that argument in your next game.

Will do! :lol:

@Jimurray  - Thank you, clearly the rule you posted covers my question.  I sort of figured there was a prohibition by rule to what I was suggesting.  I've always kept my players on our side of the field in such situations. 

 

Mike Walsh

Mike Walsh

Posted
Posted

Anybody have a rule reference on keeping the on deck batters on their own side? I read something in the NCAA "Starting the Game" section saying the batters must stay in a triangle in the vicinity of the dug out....what about high school? Is there something in the FED book? I can't find mine right now but I hate when players are determined to go on the other side to get a better look at the warm up pitches. Am I the only one that has an issue with this? Help? 

As you've now seen, NCAA and Fed have rules. USSSA SB also prohibits using the other team's side, so I wouldn't be surprised if USSSA BB also does. In Fed, the reason is to prevent taunting by keeping them away from their opponents. OBR allows batters to use either on-deck circle. But I'm curious why you have an issue if you were not sure if the rules prohibit it. Certainly we should enforce the rules as they apply to the games we are working, but we should do it because they are the rules, not because of our own issue. I've seen umpires tell players to refrain from doing things that they think are unsafe, but that are allowed by rule. I always wonder why.

Mike

Sut'n Blue

Sut'n Blue

Posted
Posted

Isn't there always room for common sense?

Example, the pitcher is warming up and one gets past the catcher and ends up not too far from the upcoming team's on-deck circle. The batter waiting to lead off trots over to pick up the ball that got past the catcher while you toss F2 a new ball. The soon to be batter tosses the ball to you, jogs to a point about ten feet to the side of F2 on the side where his on-deck circle is and takes his last one or two warm up swings while F2 throws down. Would you really issue a warning or eject if a warning had already been issued?

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Use safety.  That always works.

Except that a case can be made that the "safest" spot is the spot "behind" the batter (not during pitcher warmups, but while a batter is at the plate, of course).

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Isn't there always room for common sense?

Example, the pitcher is warming up and one gets past the catcher and ends up not too far from the upcoming team's on-deck circle. The batter waiting to lead off trots over to pick up the ball that got past the catcher while you toss F2 a new ball. The soon to be batter tosses the ball to you, jogs to a point about ten feet to the side of F2 on the side where his on-deck circle is and takes his last one or two warm up swings while F2 throws down. Would you really issue a warning or eject if a warning had already been issued?

Some FED case (already cited above) allows the on-deck batter to leave when summoned by the umpire.  Consider the player in your play to be summoned.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

As you've now seen, NCAA and Fed have rules. USSSA SB also prohibits using the other team's side, so I wouldn't be surprised if USSSA BB also does. In Fed, the reason is to prevent taunting by keeping them away from their opponents. OBR allows batters to use either on-deck circle. But I'm curious why you have an issue if you were not sure if the rules prohibit it. Certainly we should enforce the rules as they apply to the games we are working, but we should do it because they are the rules, not because of our own issue. I've seen umpires tell players to refrain from doing things that they think are unsafe, but that are allowed by rule. I always wonder why.

Mike

PBUC requires the batter to be in "the" on deck circle. The BRD quotes Fitzpatrick as requiring the next batter to remain in his circle. In upper level OBR ball I would not let a batter use the opposite circle unless the organization allowed it for "safety purposes".  Of course, it wouldn't be upper level if the on deck batter needed to be protected from his inattention. Or possibly the circles are too close due to field dimensions.

KenBAZ

KenBAZ

Posted
Posted

Is there ever a safety reason for using the other side? I've had teams try and sell me on the non-pull side as the "safely side" and will want there hitters there during play. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Is there ever a safety reason for using the other side? I've had teams try and sell me on the non-pull side as the "safely side" and will want there hitters there during play. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

That's (well, the opposite of what you typed, but I assume what you meant) moderately common in some youth programs -- use the side "behind" the current batter.

 

Unless you are playing under some tournament rules or something, I'd generally allow it as a league-approved modification to OBR.

KenBAZ

KenBAZ

Posted
Posted

? Noumpere are you saying that you call for some leagues that allow the on deck hitter to go to the pull side on deck circle when it's in front of the other dugout? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
JDavis225

JDavis225

Posted
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1-2-3

ART. 3 . . . The on-deck circle should be to the side and away from home plate, 37 feet if space allows. Neither team's players shall warm up in the other team's on-deck circle. The on-deck circle does not have to be occupied, but if a player wishes to warm up, he shall do so only in his team's on-deck circle, provided the on-deck circle is located safely away from home plate.

BINGO! Thanks a lot!

MPLSMatt

MPLSMatt

Posted
Posted

? Noumpere are you saying that you call for some leagues that allow the on deck hitter to go to the pull side on deck circle when it's in front of the other dugout? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

This is VERY common in youthball in MN.  Almost all batters at probably 13U and under are taught to go behind the hitter and if you try to stop it, your are usually going to have to argue or at least justify making them do so (and hope that no one gets hit or buzzed that game).  Most people will assume that you don't know the game (which is funny, because the rule actually backs you up) or a redass.  Literally 90 to 95% of batters do it here at 13U and lower.  

On many youth fields, it's justified as 1) they are small so the on deck circle is a very short distance from the plate  and 2) kids are for more likely to be behind a fastball and foul it off to their open side then being so far ahead of it that they pull it to their backside. 

I don't try to correct this issue until they get to a 90 foot field and then I usually say, "this isn't little league, stay on your own side please."  

 

 

KenBAZ

KenBAZ

Posted
Posted

I noticed Washington State teams we've hosted here in AZ have done it regularly. Good to know there is rule support for keeping them on their side. But should I keep them on their side? I don't like hitters in front of the other dugout where things can be said that cause headaches. Are they really safer on the pull side? Any studies to support or dispute that? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

ricka56

ricka56

Posted
Posted

I edited the OBR playing field diagram (in red) to show where batter's boxes are often positioned because of limited ball field space (your field will vary). I let batters go to the safer (no side is completely safe). What reason would there be (other than a strict rule enforcement) for making them stick to their own side ? 

batters_box.thumb.png.a0bd12c3cd1cbf3cb6

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

I noticed Washington State teams we've hosted here in AZ have done it regularly. Good to know there is rule support for keeping them on their side. But should I keep them on their side?

Depends on the age of the players (HS and up -- keep them on their own side) and whether you've noticed any "bad blood" between the teams (if so, keep them on their own side no matter what the age)

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