Batting out of order with a steal

[basejester]

OBR.  R2. 0 out. 3-x count. Improper batter in the box.  R2 is stealing on the pitch.  Ball 4 (BR walks).  F2 throws to F5 not in time to retire R2.  Defense appeals batting out of order before the next pitch.  What do you have?

[johnnyg08]

Who's BOO, the current batter or R2?

[grayhawk]

R2's steal of third stands.  Call the proper batter out, remove the improper batter from first base, and bring up the batter that follows the proper batter in the order.

[basejester]

Who's BOO, the current batter or R2?

The current batter is BOO.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2015 by basejester

[johnnyg08]

The current batter is improper.

 

If the current batter is improper can't we just bring up the proper batter?  

[basejester]

If the current batter is improper can't we just bring up the proper batter?  

Sorry, that was unclear.  The batter who just walked was improper.  He has just completed the at bat.

 

[basejester]

Scenario 2 :  Same deal except 2 outs and R2 retired 2-5 on the steal attempt.

 

[noumpere]

Scenario 2 :  Same deal except 2 outs and R2 retired 2-5 on the steal attempt.

 

Same answer.  If the defense appeals BOO, then the MYTAB is out (and R2 is "LOB" for scoring)

[Jimurray]

Scenario 2 :  Same deal except 2 outs and R2 retired 2-5 on the steal attempt.

 

In both sits do we invoke continuous action in allowing an appeal after a play?

 

[maven]

In both sits do we invoke continuous action in allowing an appeal after a play?

 

The "appeal" of MYTAB is not subject to the restrictions governing missed base and retouch appeals.

Or, what comes to the same thing, it has its own restrictions (reviewed recently in another thread): OBR/NCAA = next pitch, FED = next pitch or infielders crossing foul lines at the end of a half inning.

So, to answer your question, no.

[Jimurray]

The "appeal" of MYTAB is not subject to the restrictions governing missed base and retouch appeals.

Or, what comes to the same thing, it has its own restrictions (reviewed recently in another thread): OBR/NCAA = next pitch, FED = next pitch or infielders crossing foul lines at the end of a half inning.

So, to answer your question, no.

I think we neglected to cover play or attempted play in that thread because it was not relevant to the thread's OP.

 

[maven]

I think we neglected to cover play or attempted play in that thread because it was not relevant to the thread's OP.

 

I think we neglected to cover it because it's not relevant to MYTAB.

[basejester]

6.03 Batter Illegal Action

. . .

b) Batting out of turn

(3) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put
out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before
the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before
any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare
the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or
score made because of a ball batted by the improper bat-
ter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first
base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or
otherwise.

Edited August 21, 2015 by basejester

[Jimurray]

I think we neglected to cover it because it's not relevant to MYTAB.

The semantics of the rule are problematic. Play or attempted play is a criteria but a play on the batter after he becomes a runner is ignored:

(b) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise. 

[Jimurray]

6.03 Batter Illegal Action

. . .

b) Batting out of turn

(3) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put
out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before
the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before
any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare
the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or
score made because of a ball batted by the improper bat-
ter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first
base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or
otherwise.

While I have a semantic issue with the rule I believe we do not consider playing on the stealing runner a play that would negate MYTAB. WUM has several examples. 

My question is what do we invoke?

BTW, in sit 2 with less than 2 outs the out and the MYTAB would stand. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by Jimurray

[maven]

The semantics of the rule are problematic. Play or attempted play is a criteria but a play on the batter after he becomes a runner is ignored:

(b) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise. 

I see what you're saying now. Right: playing on a runner stealing on ball 4 would leave the defense free to appeal MYTAB.

If the defense tries to pickoff the BR after he becomes R1, that would negate their right to appeal MYTAB.

And yes, I'd use "continuous action" as the rationale for allowing one and disallowing the other.

 

BTW, in sit with less than 2 outs the out and the MYTAB would stand. 

An easy way to process this together with MYTAB: if R2 would have been allowed to stay at 3B had he been ruled safe, then his out will count when he's ruled out. If he would have been returned to 2B, then his out will not count.

Example: same situation, but with R1, R2. Runners steal on ball 4: when the defense successfully appeals MYTAB, the proper batter is out, and the runners must return, whether they were ruled safe or out after the steal attempt.