How Would you handle?

[umpire_scott]

Pitch comes in on inside corner of the plate.  Batter is crowding plate, turns and checks swing.  Pitch comes in on hands.  I hear sound that sounds like ball hit handle of bat.  Ball goes down and then rolls into the field of play.  I immediately point towards fair territory.  The batter act like it hit his hand and starts to walk towards 1st base.  I continue to point towards fair territory and the DC notices and tells his F2 to throw to 1st.  They do and record the out.  The OC of course is incensed saying his kid got hit in the hand.  I tell him I had it hitting the bottom of the bat handle.  The batter has now taken his batting glove off and the 1st base coach is showing the 1st base umpire a supposed mark on his hand.  He asks if I can get help.  The TD encourages us to pacify the coaches and get together when they ask.  So I call my 1st base umpire over and he says he had the exact same thing I did and that he did not see anything discernible on his hand.  I reiterate the out call.  The HC is beside himself and demands that we call the site director over to look at his kids hand.  I finally tell him my call stands and it is a judgement call based on what I saw and heard and I'm not changing it based on the appearance of his hand, which I never say anything either that was obviously caused by being hit with the ball. 

[Mizzou2016]

Before you get together, make the OC return to his position either in the dugout or coaches box, tell him your call after conferring with your partner will be final.

If he continues to argue after you conference? Well.. see ya.

[alan2703]

good call

[maven]

See what you call, and call what you see.

If we're tracking the ball all the way in, we can usually get eyes on what the ball hits. Batters can make that more challenging by turning or otherwise blocking our view.

If we rule hand AND bat, in any order, the ball is dead. Hand THEN bat = HBP, and a dead ball hit the bat. Bat then hand = foul ball, and it doesn't matter where the ball goes. One of these is usually the right call: to rule a fair ball, you have to rule bat ONLY, and obviously this batter thought the ball hit him at some point. Calling time immediately also gives you a moment to make your ruling, HBP or foul ball.

If we rule a fair batted ball, we need to move out to the left behind F2 and the batter and sell the call. That communication gives everyone the same info as quickly as possible, and gives everyone a fair opportunity to play. If someone has to "notice" that we're pointing fair, then we're not selling it enough.

BU can often help with whether a batted ball hits the batter's foot, but he can't legitimately help with the "hand or bat first" question. I'm fully on board with the "get it right" school, but pointless conferences merely delay the inevitable. If you want to get together for a game management tactic, to placate coach or TD, fine, but let's keep that meeting to less than 5 seconds: "Got anything different? Good, let's go."

[Majordave]

I think it was a good call if that's what you saw/heard. Do what Steven and Maven said next time. Good advice. 

[umpire_scott]

See what you call, and call what you see.

If we're tracking the ball all the way in, we can usually get eyes on what the ball hits. Batters can make that more challenging by turning or otherwise blocking our view.

If we rule hand AND bat, in any order, the ball is dead. Hand THEN bat = HBP, and a dead ball hit the bat. Bat then hand = foul ball, and it doesn't matter where the ball goes. One of these is usually the right call: to rule a fair ball, you have to rule bat ONLY, and obviously this batter thought the ball hit him at some point. Calling time immediately also gives you a moment to make your ruling, HBP or foul ball.

If we rule a fair batted ball, we need to move out to the left behind F2 and the batter and sell the call. That communication gives everyone the same info as quickly as possible, and gives everyone a fair opportunity to play. If someone has to "notice" that we're pointing fair, then we're not selling it enough.

BU can often help with whether a batted ball hits the batter's foot, but he can't legitimately help with the "hand or bat first" question. I'm fully on board with the "get it right" school, but pointless conferences merely delay the inevitable. If you want to get together for a game management tactic, to placate coach or TD, fine, but let's keep that meeting to less than 5 seconds: "Got anything different? Good, let's go."

Do give any sort of verbal?  I did step out from behind F2 and emphatically pointed to fair territory, but often they are not looking at me.  Even the catcher was looking at the batter.

[maven]

Do give any sort of verbal?  I did step out from behind F2 and emphatically pointed to fair territory, but often they are not looking at me.  Even the catcher was looking at the batter.

Can't give any verbal for a fair ball. Just keep moving and pointing fair. You can take a couple steps toward the mound if you like, as long as you keep your eye on action around the plate. If you're the only one who's moving, you'll attract everyone's attention.

[umpire_scott]

In retrospect I probably should have killed it, but my call was based on what I saw and heard.  Once I point fair I pretty much have to stick with that call.  It probably did hit bat then hand or maybe both at the same time.  Based on the reaction of the ball and what I heard I'm confident it was mostly bat, but it may have caught part of the bottom of his bottom hand as well.

[BillKen]

You got an out and dealt with a new situation so you learned something.  Nothing wrong about either of those things.  I'm just sad you don't have an ejection story to go along with it!

[RichMSN]

Let him go find the site director. Sadly, he won't be able to participate in the game anymore. I can't stand these tournaments where they think people outside the fence have more authority than those running the game. Too often, it's cause they've had someone outside the fence interject themselves where they didn't belong at least once before. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

Some MLB ump was once asked in a clinic about a play similar to the OP.  His answer: "It hit the hand first."

[maven]

It probably did hit bat then hand or maybe both at the same time.

One thing we can be absolutely certain of: it did not hit both at the same time. Something happened first.

Noumpere makes a good point: as a game management tactic, it hit the hand first.

[basejester]

If you think there might be helpful information in the way the batter reacts, wait to see that reaction before making a call.  After the fact, I don't mind reversing this to a foul ball, dead ball strike, or hit by pitch after seeing a mark that I was convinced showed the ball struck the batter.

That said, even young 10 year-olds are capable of faking this by shaking their hand as if in pain and so forth.

 

[MadMax]

In complete and particular regard to what @noumpere, @maven, @basejester, and @StevenCraze have shared, you asked how we would handle it...

"TIME!"

That would give me an additional moment to process what I just saw and heard. When those two sounds – the ping (or click) of the bat and the fleshy sound of human – merge together, it is understandably difficult to determine which the ball got first. But here's the "saving grace" in this event. Regardless of if it bat first or hands first, which is it? A dead ball.

You mentioned "check swing"... What I would do, also, if I felt a degree of uncertainty as to which it hit first, is to quick consult with my BU(s), and ask if they have a swing. If they have a swing, then that supercedes any "hit by pitch" awards. Again, these few seconds are giving my brain time to review and process what I experienced. So, if I judged that it hit the bat first, then it's a Foul ball... If it hit fleshy human hands first, then it's HBP. In either outcome, I've addressed what occurred so that both sides hear that I identified both events.

I don't need to explain or discuss a lot, or preface things with "It's my judgement..." With the ball (still) dead, I merely state, "Ball hit (hands / bat) first, thus, it's a (hit by pitch / foul ball)." And we get the game cranked up and resumed in short order.

If a pitch bores in, and hits nothing but knob / handle and goes fair, that's exceptionally rare. The reaction (pang of pain) of the batter, at that instant, can be a definite signal as to what actually happened.

[clasonater]

I don't know why, but I've had trouble with those new BBCOR metal bats and the dead sound they make when it hits the knob.  It's got a different sound IMHO, similar to getting hit in the hand. 

[noumpere]

In complete and particular regard to what @noumpere, @maven, @basejester, and @StevenCraze have shared, you asked how we would handle it...

"TIME!"

The problem with calling "Time"  in the OP is that the ball is in fair territory.  So, if it hit only the knob, then calling "Time" is the last thing you want to do.

 

No matter what you do here, the "other" side is going to be convinced you got it wrong.  And, honestly, there's no way to be sure we got it right.

[MadMax]

I'm not arguing with you, @noumpere...

Based on the OP's initial situation, at TOP, I've got it hitting both bat and hands. Thus, it is a dead ball... As to if it's HBP or Foul, I'd had to have heard it myself. Even Scott conceded that "in retrospect I (he) should killed it", meaning there is an element of doubt as to if it hit nothing but bat. With this factored in, it is easier and more effective to sell a HBP or Foul call than a Live-Ball-Play-On.

[PonyUmpire]

@umpire_scott On plays like this one that you only see a couple times in a season or less, you can't use your normal timing.  Your brain is going to need more time to process what you saw.  Use all the information available to you, including the batters reaction and just the general "feel" of the situation, take your time, and then go with what your baseball instinct told you happened.  Don't overthink, or you're more likely to end up being wrong.

Edited September 14, 2015 by PonyUmpire

[lawump]

Some MLB ump was once asked in a clinic about a play similar to the OP.  His answer: "It hit the hand first."

Exactly.  And the reason is that in these situations F1 usually has missed his spot (often he has missed it by a lot).  So, why nit-pic boogers?  F1 failed, so don't take the sh!tty end of the stick...award the batter first base on the HBP unless you're 100% sure that it did not hit the hands [or if the batter was dramatically leaning out over the plate (and into the strike zone) in which case you have something entirely different].