Throwing error on 3rd?

[MBS]

With no outs and no one on base, the batter hits a hard ground ball to third base. The third baseman fields the ball cleanly, but makes a low throw to the first baseman. A clean throw would have gotten the force out at first. The first baseman stops the ball, but the ball lays on the ground by first. The runner is safe at first, but makes a turn toward second to advance and then immediately decides to return to first. But, the first baseman picks up the ball and tags the batter-runner before the return to first is complete. The umpire calls the batter-runner out. Is the third baseman charged with an error on the throw?

Edited April 28, 2015 by MBS

[BillKen]

Runner is put out by what he did AFTER he reached 1B.  If a clean throw to F3 would have clearly gotten the out, it is an E5.

[grozzly]

Runner is put out by what he did AFTER he reached 1B.  If a clean throw to F3 would have clearly gotten the out, it is an E5.

​

I would rather vote for an error of the firstbaseman......

in the OP, we can't define if it's a throwing  error from F5 or a fielding error by F3...

[maven]

Did you post this question at scorekeepers.com?

[roothog66]

Did you post this question at scorekeepers.com?

​LOL! Oh, my.

[Larry in TN]

As described, I'd score it as a reached-on-error (E5) and an unassisted put-out (US3).  

The put-out is unassisted due to 10.10(b)(3).

[MBS]

Thanks for all the feedback. Yes, a clean throw from the third baseman would have gotten the out at first. I updated the question to make that clear.

[MBS]

I had always heard that if you got an out, you didn't score an error. But, I looking through the rules, I found no such rule.

The runner did not get a hit, so there must be a reason for that, right? Reason is E5.

Our scorekeeper scored it an E5 with a pick-off. But, the pick-off credits the pitcher, who was not even involved with the play.

Sounds to me like Larry from TN's response is the complete proper scoring, i.e. reached-on-error (E5) and an unassisted put-out (US3).  

Thank you!

[MBS]

Maven, I did not know about scorekeepers.com. Thank you.

[ZebraStripes]

E5 3un on the putout

 

 

Scorekeepers.com is a whimsical joke.

[MBS]

I've been duped by Maven. There is no scorekeepers.com. Feel like a freshman with a senior just pulling prank on me.

[Larry in TN]

I've been duped by Maven. There is no scorekeepers.com. Feel like a freshman with a senior just pulling prank on me.

​Yeah, well, umpires don't get involved in scoring decisions so scoring, and rule 10.00, aren't really on topic on this forum.  There are many who are interested in it, though, so we occasionally have threads on scoring.  Maven's joke often appears at some point in those threads. 

I'm not an umpire myself.  As you can see from my avatar, I'm a scorer for my son's LL teams.  I'm here because it is the best place I've found to learn about the rules and I find all of the intricacies of umpiring very interesting.  

If you're scoring LL then get a copy of What's the Score? which is the LL version of rule 10.00.  Just Google "What's the score? little league" and you should be able to find it.

[noumpere]

I dont' care what you say, I had it as a hit, and then a bad call by the umpire.  Of course, it was my kid hitting.

[noumpere]

I've been duped by Maven. There is no scorekeepers.com. Feel like a freshman with a senior just pulling prank on me.

​There was some site for scorekeepers a few years ago.

[The Flush]

iScore Forum

HS Baseball Web Scorekeeping Forum

There are probably others.

[Rich Ives]

Go to Amazon and search for scorekeeping

How it's scored won't affect anyone's chances for  pro contract, college scholarship,  or even a spot on the varsity so maybe just chill? 

[Larry in TN]

How it's scored won't affect anyone's chances for  pro contract, college scholarship,  or even a spot on the varsity so maybe just chill? 

​How a LL game is umpired won't affect anyone's chances for a pro contract, etc., so are the umpires wasting their time trying to learn how to do it right?

 

[noumpere]

​How a LL game is umpired won't affect anyone's chances for a pro contract, etc., so are the umpires wasting their time trying to learn how to do it right?

 

​Not even close to the proper analogy.

[Rich Ives]

​How a LL game is umpired won't affect anyone's chances for a pro contract, etc., so are the umpires wasting their time trying to learn how to do it right?

 

​It'll have an effect on your advancement as an umpire.