Deciding who get the W

[Guest Chad]

Michael Wacha was on a pitch count coming off the DL. He pitched 3 innings & left w/ a lead the Cards never gave up. Marco Gonzalez pitched 2 and a third. Gonzalez got the W. I always thought in this case its up to the official scorer which pitcher is credited w/ the W. Does Gonzalez getting the W have anything to do with what constitutes a complete game? Does a starter have to go 5 innings to get the W?

Thanks

[Thunderheads]

.........I think it's 5 innings........

[VAUmp]

The starter must pitch 5+ innings to get credit for the win.

[noumpere]

There's more, but this should cover it:

 

10.17(b):

(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during

the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does

not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed

(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or

(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense,

then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there

is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment

was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.

[siz]

It is 5 innings

10.19 (a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

(b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

[SoCal Lurker]

The Angels had a similar scenario against the As:  without a true starter, they used 8 pitchers.  Only the starter threw more than an inning -- a whopping 3.  But because of the rule, he was ineligible to get the W - even though he left the game with a lead and deserved it more than any of those who followed him.  :shrug:Like many baseball stats, Ws are a bit quirky and can be misleading.

[noumpere]

The Angels had a similar scenario against the As:  without a true starter, they used 8 pitchers.  Only the starter threw more than an inning -- a whopping 3.  But because of the rule, he was ineligible to get the W - even though he left the game with a lead and deserved it more than any of those who followed him.  :shrug:Like many baseball stats, Ws are a bit quirky and can be misleading.

Note that NCAA has a similar rule to OBR (must pitch 5 innings) with an exception to the effect that "if it's pre-planned that the starter will not go 5 innings, the starter can get the win." 

[Richvee]

 Ws are a bit quirky and can be misleading.

Sure can. Love when a closer comes in the 9th inning and coughs up a 3 run lead, and his team comes back in the bottom of the 9th to score a run. He gets the W, while the starting F1  went 8 scoreless and left with a 3-0 lead, he gets squat. 

[Senor Azul]

For Mr. siz, you might consider obtaining a current copy of the Official Baseball Rules. The text you quoted no longer exists. The rule that covers how to determine a winning and a losing pitcher is now found in rule 10.17 as quoted by Mr. noumpere.

 

For guest Chad, if you are really interested in scorekeeping there is a website dedicated to the subject at baseballscorecard.com. And there is a truly thorough book about scorekeeping written by Andres Wirkmaa titled Baseball Scorekeeping: A Practical Guide to the Rules. Here is what Mr. Wirkmaa says about this question:

 

"No particular guidance is given in this respect, except the instruction to decide the issue based on which relief pitcher was "the most effective." However, no objective criteria are set forth with which to measure which relief pitcher was the most effective.

 

Given the lack of any particular standards, one can assume that the rulebook is content to rely on the scorekeeper's discretion. Nonetheless, the words "most effective" strongly suggest that some degree of objectivity should be employed in the making the decision. It may be the number of batters faced, the difficulties overcome, the overall quality of the pitching, or any other legitimate basis for making the choice. But when all is said and done, it's always a judgment call by the official scorer. Nonetheless, as long as the decision has a valid justification, it cannot be considered a bad determination or a choice that is contrary to the letter or the spirit of Rule 10.17(b)."

 

 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I wouldn't be surprised to see these rules changed/tweaked in the relatively near future.  In response to the current epidemic of Tommy John surgeries, some forward-thinking manager is going to scrap the traditional 5-man rotation.  He will run each game like they do in the all-star game, changing pitchers every inning or two...with them working every day, with an occasional day off.   

[Senor Azul]

The current rules about determining the winning and losing pitchers came into effect in 1950. Prior to that it was pretty much chaos because it was up to each individual scorekeeper. Also, there is already a rule in place, 10.17(e), if the prevailing philosophy changes about pitching rotations. The rule tells us how to determine the winner and loser in the All-Star game so not much rule tweaking would be necessary.