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Another protest! I think Maddon has a point!

VAUmp

By VAUmp
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Rich Ives
Rich Ives

Given that the rule apparently states   The judgment of the Crew Chief regarding the timeliness of a Manager's Challenge shall be final and binding on both Clubs, and shall not be reviewable by Repl

Replacematt
Replacematt

And that makes it judgement.

Lindsay
Lindsay

Protest will be denied. Timeliness is not reviewable and is "final and binding on both Clubs."

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

I don't think it gets upheld. Crew Chief has final say on if it's timely or not. BD says manager was stepping out of the dugout when F1 was stepping on the rubber. 

Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted

I don't think it gets upheld. Crew Chief has final say on if it's timely or not. BD says manager was stepping out of the dugout when F1 was stepping on the rubber.

And that makes it judgement.

  • Like 1
Gfoley4

Gfoley4

Posted
Posted

"Davidson told a pool reporter that he saw Gibbons emerging from the dugout just as Escobar was stepping back into the box.

 

'(Escobar) was just about getting in, but I'm looking at Gibbons and he's coming out and he's not a speed merchant, and I thought, it's on time,' Davidson said. 'We want to get the play correct. That's what we're out here for.'"

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11398891/tampa-bay-rays-protest-loss-toronto-blue-jays

kylejt

kylejt

Posted
Posted

I think it might come down to what Balkin' Bob actually told Madden. Bob (sit down now, this may shock you) may not have known the rule, and told Madden something wrong. Like "before the next pitch" (which is what it should be, instead the insane way it's worded now.)

Moe

Moe

Posted
Posted

I was watching this game and I am on the fence. I don't think that MLB is going to undermine a CC, but maybe Maddon has a point... We'll see...

JaxRolo

JaxRolo

Posted
Posted

TORONTO -- Rays manager Joe Maddon has an "adequate amount of hope" that Saturday's game -- a 5-4 extra-inning loss -- which his team played under protest, will be upheld after having a brief conversation with executive vice president of baseball operations Joe Torre.

The two talked for five minutes prior to Sunday's series finale against the Blue Jays, and Maddon was pleased to hear that Torre feels the protest is valid. Maddon now has to submit an email based on everything that happened from his perspective and he said Torre will look more diligently into that matter Monday and make a decision from there.

Although protests aren't typically upheld -- it has happened twice since 1986 -- Maddon believes the rules in place give his team a chance to get the game replayed from the fourth inning, which is when the incident in question occurred.

"Any time you get with Joe, it's always fair and you will be listened to," Maddon said. "You can't ask for anything more than that. I'm looking forward to seeing what he has to say."

The protest came as a result of a replay challenge during the fourth inning of Saturday's game. The Blue Jays challenged a call on a pickoff play at first base, but Maddon contends the next "play" had occurred -- making it too late for a challenge -- because the pitcher had toed the rubber and the next batter had entered the batter's box.

There is, however, some nuance to the rule, Maddon said. What he was likely referring to is language found later in the same section (II.D), which states: "The Crew Chief shall have the final authority to determine whether a Manager's Challenge is timely. The judgment of the Crew Chief regarding the timeliness of a Manager's Challenge shall be final and binding on both Clubs, and shall not be reviewable by Replay Review or otherwise."

Maddon was told Saturday by crew chief Bob Davidson that the play could not be protested because it had to do with replay. In Maddon's opinion, however, the protest has nothing to do with replay -- that's not what he protested -- and everything to do with getting to replay. Torre confirmed that is a situation where a protest is valid.

"It's two separate issues," Maddon explained. "The one part that there is no nuance, whatsoever, almost like the heart and soul or crux of the system, is pitcher on the rubber, batter in the box precludes anything else from happening. You can't do anything else at that moment, that was the locking mechanism.

"That was emphatically described to us as being the locking mechanism in all the meetings. So it should be everything after that should not have occurred. … It's tantamount to inadmissible evidence. It's no different than in a courtroom situation when information is gotten illegally or inappropriately that you can't utilize it. Otherwise, let's take the rule out and put it in the garbage can."

Davidson believes that Blue Jays manager John Gibbons challenged just in time, but it will ultimately be Torre who has the final say.

zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63817564/v35597991

 

This should probably be upheld based on the rule. Watch that video at 5:10. They show the field from behind the plate and the batter is in the box, pitcher on the rubber, PU is ready to go. The catcher stands up, pitcher steps off, PU calls time, and at 5:18 the camera pans to the Blue Jays' dugout and no one has left the dugout yet. Then Gibbons finally comes out. 

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

Given that the rule apparently states

 

The judgment of the Crew Chief regarding the timeliness of a Manager's Challenge shall be final and binding on both Clubs, and shall not be reviewable by Replay Review or otherwise.

 

I'd bet on it getting rejected and then at some point the rule changed.

  • Like 2
BigSimonia

BigSimonia

Posted
Posted

Given that the rule apparently states

 

The judgment of the Crew Chief regarding the timeliness of a Manager's Challenge shall be final and binding on both Clubs, and shall not be reviewable by Replay Review or otherwise.

 

I'd bet on it getting rejected and then at some point the rule changed.

I agree the protest will be overruled - but they won't change the rule.  They WANT to give the CC some discretion on this

SoCal Lurker

SoCal Lurker

Posted
Posted

 

Given that the rule apparently states

 

The judgment of the Crew Chief regarding the timeliness of a Manager's Challenge shall be final and binding on both Clubs, and shall not be reviewable by Replay Review or otherwise.

 

I'd bet on it getting rejected and then at some point the rule changed.

I agree the protest will be overruled - but they won't change the rule.  They WANT to give the CC some discretion on this

 

 

 

I don't think a replay review that corrects an erroenous call is going to lead to any change of this rule.  But I think what will lead to greater clarity is if a CC rules a challenge untmely and both (1) the challenge would have been upheld, and (2) the powers that be believe the CC should have permitted the challenge. But just speculating.

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